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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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 Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 10:09 pm Post subject: |
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You know the perception....just look at the posts in this thread. It is the belief that homeschool parents are Bible thumpers that want to completely indoctrinate their kids away from any influence by society at large.
I am saying that it doesn't matter the reasons. Parents should be allowed to homeschool their kids without interference by the state...including not being required to be a certified instructor. The research shows that homeschooled kids do not receive an inferior education overall, so WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:44 am Post subject: |
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| wannago wrote: |
I am saying that it doesn't matter the reasons.
Parents should be allowed to homeschool their kids without interference by the state
... including not being required to be a certified instructor.
The research shows that homeschooled kids do not receive an inferior education overall, so WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? |
i completely agree Wannago.
The "problem" is the state's LEVIATHAN role in usurping, encoraching upon, or otherwise restricting *beep* freedom.
AmeriKa.
Last edited by igotthisguitar on Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:50 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:48 am Post subject: |
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| igotthisguitar wrote: |
| wannago wrote: |
I am saying that it doesn't matter the reasons.
Parents should be allowed to homeschool their kids without interference by the state
... including not being required to be a certified instructor.
The research shows that homeschooled kids do not receive an inferior education overall, so WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? |
i completely agree Wannago.
The "problem" is the state's LEVIATHAN role in usurping or otherwise restricting freedom.
AmeriKa. |
ROFL.
Here wannago is making a valid point . . . and in comes IGTG, whose political philosophy can be summed up in one mispelling, to undermine him a little. |
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Biblethumper
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Location: Busan, Korea
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 3:47 am Post subject: |
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And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thy house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up. |
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Tiger Beer
Joined: 07 Feb 2003
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 4:08 am Post subject: |
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Well, if that law goes into effect, then the rest of white Los Angeles will be fleeing the State of California very soon right after the others that couldn't afford the much too high housing costs anymore.
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Regarding the rest of the debate. I have no interest in religious teaching whatsoever, but home schooling is far above and beyond public schools. I have a few cousins that were home schooled and they are significantly more socially-adjusted adults than I've seen of the mass majority of young adults their age.
Personally I think the Public School system delays kid's learning and growth, they are basically just 'waiting around' for high school to finish and goofing off a whole lot of the time during the process of waiting it out.
Of my several cousins who were home-schooled they were able to pass tests to take several university classes while still a teenager. They were also just damn good people because they learned so much through the home schooling social network as opposed to their high school 'peer' group. |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 12:53 pm Post subject: |
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| igotthisguitar wrote: |
| wannago wrote: |
I am saying that it doesn't matter the reasons.
Parents should be allowed to homeschool their kids without interference by the state
... including not being required to be a certified instructor.
The research shows that homeschooled kids do not receive an inferior education overall, so WHAT IS THE PROBLEM? |
i completely agree Wannago.
The "problem" is the state's LEVIATHAN role in usurping, encoraching upon, or otherwise restricting *beep* freedom.
AmeriKa. |
Ummmmm.....not really what I was talking about, IGTG. I think more of my country than to refer to it as....well....like you do.
Kuros, c'mon man, don't laugh at my misfortune!  |
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Been There, Taught That
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Mungyeong: not a village, not yet a metroplex.
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:15 pm Post subject: |
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| wannago wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| wannago wrote: |
Just because some of you lefties have trouble understanding someone's religious beliefs, doesn't mean people shouldn't be allowed to keep teaching their kids at home. |
I never argued that.
But there is no Constitutional right for parents to homeschool their children.
If you want to change the law, go ahead. Or, maybe you all can let California run their own state. Its called Federalism. |
I wasn't necessarily thinking of you, but if you want to play with the ball....OK.
And there is no Constitutional mandate for forcing children to go to public schools either. Sure, California can run their own state, but they should be ridiculed when their "position" runs counter to research done on the topic. |
States, in the long run, do meditate on federal policy and, in the case of schooling, do run their systems as the federal government would, because they want that funding. I think there is little difference between state and federal mandates for education, so we could see this ruling spreading nationally very soon.
I just recently read about an initiative by gay rights groups called the Day of Silence, scheduled to take place with the blessings of thousands of schools nationwide in April. Now, Christians obviously don't want to be involved in this kind of thing, and it's just one reason for the popularity of the thought of home schooling these days.
Of course, not all home schooling parents are Christian; some are just disgruntled or feel pushed aside by the system, and actually do want to teach their children personal values not generally accepted by society nor necessarily by moralists. Some home schoolers are actually former teachers who don't accept what's being taught in the school anymore.
Having been a substitute, I can say that some teachers will be up front enough to tell you that with the right materials and attitude, those subjects kids go to school to learn can be adequately taught at home, even without formal certification training. Mostly, the trasining is in the psychology of large group behavior: it's the discipline issue, mostly. Peer pressure and the authority of a large, organized body of education do have an effect upon keeping people in line, and, in my opinion, if federal and state policy didn't blanket the whole system to the point of tying the hands of most districts, schools would see a marked decrease in 'amoral' behavior of all kinds, including violence, vandalism, etc. That means, more pride in being a part of a group and less willingness of the individual to throw a wrench into the plans.
Still, keeping kids in line long enough to learn should be a parent thing, not a school thing. If it comes down to school intervention, isn't it too late already? |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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| wannago wrote: |
Ummmmm.....not really what I was talking about, IGTG.
I think more of my country than to refer to it as....well....like you do. |
No, not really, eh? Hmmmm ... that's too bad.
Anyways, just to be clear, i wasn't referring to your "country" so much as the corrupt state apparatus which increasingly seeks to imprison, dictate & lord over all of America's "freedom" loving citizens. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 12:52 am Post subject: |
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| Been There, Taught That wrote: |
| wannago wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| wannago wrote: |
Just because some of you lefties have trouble understanding someone's religious beliefs, doesn't mean people shouldn't be allowed to keep teaching their kids at home. |
I never argued that.
But there is no Constitutional right for parents to homeschool their children.
If you want to change the law, go ahead. Or, maybe you all can let California run their own state. Its called Federalism. |
I wasn't necessarily thinking of you, but if you want to play with the ball....OK.
And there is no Constitutional mandate for forcing children to go to public schools either. Sure, California can run their own state, but they should be ridiculed when their "position" runs counter to research done on the topic. |
States, in the long run, do meditate on federal policy and, in the case of schooling, do run their systems as the federal government would, because they want that funding. I think there is little difference between state and federal mandates for education, so we could see this ruling spreading nationally very soon.
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I don't understand how that would be possible. The statute the ruling bases itself on is a California statute. The issue brought by appellant was whether he had a Constitutional right to homeschool. The judge ruled that California provided no such Constitutional right.
States run their own schools, and Federal funding provides a mere 9% of funding for schools nationally. |
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Been There, Taught That
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Mungyeong: not a village, not yet a metroplex.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 2:40 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Been There, Taught That wrote: |
| States, in the long run, do meditate on federal policy and, in the case of schooling, do run their systems as the federal government would, because they want that funding. I think there is little difference between state and federal mandates for education, so we could see this ruling spreading nationally very soon. |
I don't understand how that would be possible. The statute the ruling bases itself on is a California statute. The issue brought by appellant was whether he had a Constitutional right to homeschool. The judge ruled that California provided no such Constitutional right.
States run their own schools, and Federal funding provides a mere 9% of funding for schools nationally. |
Comparing schools in just Wisconsin and California, I can name a number of established campaigns, not even speaking of compulsory education, that are too remarkably similar to overlook. Here is one: http://www.bullypolice.org/. Every school has a bullying campaign, and not because each state was coincidentally independent about it. Same goes for race-based, gender-based, orientation-based, empowerment-based, etc.-type program. These are mandatory. If it could, I'm guessing that every school I've heard of would leave behind the No Child Left Behind policy. That is at the core of school compliance these days.
I've known for a long time that the oversight police would get around to home schooling soon or later. I want to home school my daughter, who is still only two, but I expect that in three years Wisconsin will have gotten around to pushing for certification for all teachers, no matter who. Right now, California has the private school legal umbrella that a home school can use; Wisconsin isn't yet that scrutinizing yet. But if the US doesn't out-and-out regulate public schools, it does force a lot of collusion and uniformity among the states, and I'm going to say that because of some of the programs that are so precious to many schools--and the ease with which any student can escalate a grievance--federal funding, no matter how small, is not seen as easy to replace.
Two good sites: http://californiahomeschool.net/default.htm and www.hsc.org |
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Biblethumper
Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Location: Busan, Korea
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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Homeschooling emerged in the last quarter of the twentieth century, and throughout those years the state and the teachers' unions fought hard to stamp it out. But it has thriven.
God willing, it will overcome this latest attack as well.
On another note, socialization at public school consists of peer pressure versus regimentation. Socialization at home consists of family and neighbours of all ages. Children are impressionable. Whose impressions should they receive? Since the dawn of mankind, parents have assumed responsibility, but in the nineteenth century, the state began to usurp that authority. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Since the dawn of mankind, parents have assumed responsibility, but in the nineteenth century, the state began to usurp that authority. |
Actually, this isn't true. People have been sending kids off to schools since the dawn of civilization, and very likely before. Parents in Sumer and Egypt who could afford it did it. Puritans in Massachusetts wanted all their kids to be literate and were the first, or among the first, to attempt to achieve universal literacy. Education was held in such high esteem that the Northwest Ordinance set up a way to establish public schools as the frontier was settled, to universal acclaim. |
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mistermasan
Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Location: 10+ yrs on Dave's ESL cafe
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| Posted: Sun Mar 16, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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the gov't has no right overseeing education. it has taken on this role because the people wanted it to.
if yu have a kid you should be responsible for his/her education. don't expect every other taxpayer to subsidize your offspring.
every kid is homeschooled. parents are a kid's primary educators. that many parents fob such duty off on the gov't does not make it correct. the family is the center piece of any society and the primacy of the family is first and foremost. |
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