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Current Events and civility...
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Enrico Palazzo
Mod Team
Mod Team


Joined: 11 Mar 2008

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:15 am    Post subject: Current Events and civility... Reply with quote

What would be good in bringing about organisation on the CE Forum, chaps? There are a lot of good things happening on the forum in terms of there being more of a variety of news then there was in the past. Of course, I think it would be good to include, perhaps, more non-North American, European matter to be more global including more East Asian as we are in Asia, but many posters have done a good job in that area.
I think most posters are civil, but there are some posters who won't be named who are getting too personal and encouraging flame wars, engaging in racist type talk. That goes beyond the pale. Is it really needed on this forum? What about the use of propaganda. That's normal to have on a forum. When do you feel it goes out of bounds?
I think it is normal to have somewhat, but not when posters place
news articles at a start of a thread after putting some propaganda title an author did not intend. That leads to using an author for propaganda when reporters are supposed to report. How should that be used.
What of guidelines.

The forum has been observed for a while. Good things are happening, and not so good things are happening. Your input is appreciated.

And go Yankees! (Just kidding).

Grazie Mille

Enrico Palazzo..


Last edited by Enrico Palazzo on Fri Mar 21, 2008 5:55 am; edited 3 times in total
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Too much *beeping* censorship.

Worst i've in fact yet to come across on the "web".

pro-PAGAN-da ...

p.s. Funny avatar

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yawarakaijin



Joined: 08 Aug 2006

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 4:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

igotthisguitar wrote:
Too much *beeping* censorship.

Worst i've in fact yet to come across on the "web".

pro-PAGAN-da ...

p.s. Funny avatar




LOL, what does this mean!? I mean, I'm really curious. Are you trying to link the ancient pagan religions with censorship? Were the pagans the first to employ propaganda? I need to know.
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cbclark4



Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 5:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I left my glasses at home today so I don't really understand the the
relationship between the OP and the responses here. It's not very clear.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Civility requires restraint and a willingness not to cross a line.

You're not going to see perfect civility here. People care too much about their own opinions, too little about how their current opponent feels at the time, and too much about what third parties are thinking reading their musings.

This forum has seen far less civil days.
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Enrico Palazzo
Mod Team
Mod Team


Joined: 11 Mar 2008

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cbclark4 wrote:
I left my glasses at home today so I don't really understand the the
relationship between the OP and the responses here. It's not very clear.



It does seem that things, sometimes, on this board do not make sense and are beyond mystery, as some might venture to say. As far as what was said by Igotthisguitar, he speaks of censorship, because the would, perhaps, like to say whatever he would like without using responsible speech? I am not certain.

The poster does believe in human rights according to the posts posted on CE.. That means there are, to him, guidelines on how human beings should be treated and the respect they must be accorded. In this forum, there are also guidelines and there will be guidelines implemented, hopefully, with the input of the posters of this illustrious forum and other moderators. The OP, moderator is not here to debate, but to hear ideas and see what can be implemented.

I hope the gentlemen and gentlewomen who contribute to this said forum can add their 2 cents, 2 pence and let us know what can be improved, but no one wants to simply implement guidelines without feedback. I will post some observations in more detail at the end of the week (Friday) after taking notes, but would like some feedback, quid pro quo, input, so we can have better output. Be responsible for your reactions, no one is responsible for them.


Cheers.....arrivaderci.

Enrico....


Last edited by Enrico Palazzo on Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:26 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Justin Hale



Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Location: the Straight Talk Express

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I generally try real hard to avoid ad hominem, but sometimes it's irresistible (for example, when a guy teaching in Korea posits lay, base, erroneous, ideologically-driven discourse in opposition to a worldwide consensus of scientists Laughing ).
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cbclark4



Joined: 20 Aug 2006
Location: Masan

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

For those that ever feel personally insulted by others on this or
any others forum, let me remind them that in a forum you are not here.

It is not you that is being insulted or offended. It is your Internet persona
that is represented here. So don't take it personally.

Internet Personae like to test the limits of logic and reason, that
sometimes id the purpose of the Propaganda type titles. Much on this
forum is argued pursuant to interpretation and translation. Heck we could
argue translation versus interpretation couldn't we.

Rules really suck. I make this statement because as above they are
open to interpretation. Look at the swear filter fiasco, rules that simply
don't work are enacted and we can't talk about the silly shirt McGarrett
wore the other day.

For the most part the real rule should be if someone feels offended and
reports to the mods then take action. It should be up to the mods being
the mods to determine the action from simple email discussions with the
parties involved to banishment based on the infraction. In the more
serious action (banishment) there should be more than one mod
involved in the decision.

As far as posting rules, I think you dilute your authority by posting the
rules. It is the Mods job to act as a reasonably prudent persona when
making decision. You may hear repercussion for a decision and you
should have your mind open to those criticism and consider any good
rational in future decisions.

Make decisions in the now correct decision in the future.

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Enrico Palazzo
Mod Team
Mod Team


Joined: 11 Mar 2008

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 6:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

cbclark4 wrote:
For those that ever feel personally insulted by others on this or
any others forum, let me remind them that in a forum you are not here.

It is not you that is being insulted or offended. It is your Internet persona
that is represented here. So don't take it personally.

Internet Personae like to test the limits of logic and reason, that
sometimes id the purpose of the Propaganda type titles. Much on this
forum is argued pursuant to interpretation and translation. Heck we could
argue translation versus interpretation couldn't we.

Rules really suck. I make this statement because as above they are
open to interpretation. Look at the swear filter fiasco, rules that simply
don't work are enacted and we can't talk about the silly shirt McGarrett
wore the other day.

For the most part the real rule should be if someone feels offended and
reports to the mods then take action. It should be up to the mods being
the mods to determine the action from simple email discussions with the
parties involved to banishment based on the infraction. In the more
serious action (banishment) there should be more than one mod
involved in the decision.

As far as posting rules, I think you dilute your authority by posting the
rules. It is the Mods job to act as a reasonably prudent persona when
making decision. You may hear repercussion for a decision and you
should have your mind open to those criticism and consider any good
rational in future decisions.

Make decisions in the now correct decision in the future.




Yes, cbclark, people should not let themselves get so offended by the ideological positions of the other and act as if the other is beneath them or what have you. It involves allowing yourself to succumb to feelings of that you cannot handle someone's position without having it unsettle you. It is a choice you make, that I agree with.

The mod team is out there to promote civility, guidelines on this forum. The swear filter is part of the system. The problem with letting loose with the swear filter is could easily lead to posters getting emotional on any forum whether the General Forum or the CE. We are only here at the moment to make recommendations, encourage civility, post general guidelines to follow that are not necessarily mandatory, but if violated blatantly leading to major disturbances could result in warnings, and as you said that would be a judgement call, subject to review. The purpose of moderation here is not rules, but encouraging moderation when engaging each other in debate.

Basically, people who abuse the forum should not continue to do so without being alerted to their actions and would get an explanation. I think many rules and hard-fast ones would stifle things. I am for general guidelines encouraging people to follow them and if certain posters blatantly oppose them and the mod team finds them to be a problem for CE and other posters each case would be looked at.

Also, recommendations would be for how to make this place more interesting, have more diversity.

Thank you, Clark and for others for your input... A few of you have commented and your comments are helpful...
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Milwaukiedave



Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Location: Goseong

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:37 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

EP,

Welcome to our mess (I mean that in the nicest way). I'm sure by now you've been filled in on the last couple of month in terms of what has been going on in the CE forum. Most of the people aren't too bad, but I think you are getting a good idea of who's who by now. It seems to me like there are is a group of 20 or so people who post regularly here.

The mods have pretty much ignored the CE forum for the most part and only step in when people complain long and hard enough to point out what's going on. I hope that changes. Not that I want mass bannings, but it would be nice to get rid of the severe trouble makers. I won't say names, but I think you'll catch on quickly if you read between the lines and look back at the report post history.

It would also be nice to see some of the threads that are complete conspiracy theory locked.

In my opinion if those two things are done, it will help a great deal. Just my two cents.
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 7:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

yawarakaijin wrote:
igotthisguitar wrote:
Too much *beeping* censorship.

Worst i've in fact yet to come across on the "web".

pro-PAGAN-da ...

p.s. Funny avatar



LOL, what does this mean!?

I mean, I'm really curious. Are you trying to link the ancient pagan religions with censorship?

Were the pagans the first to employ propaganda? I need to know.


No, the PAGANS were the first "targets".

Do you know what the word pagan really means?

Also, why do you so desperately "need" to know?

i'd like to know Wink
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Big_Bird



Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The problem with putting up news about Europe (which I have tried) is that few people are interested, unless it is something out of the ordinary. So while I think it is a nice idea, I don't envisage much success, though I would be pleased to be proved wrong. Korean news is discussed regularly but usually outside this forum.

As for moderating this place too closely, that was tried a couple of years ago and ended in much resentment and dissatisfaction from regular users (some of who began avoiding the place). One particular moderator tried too hard to impose their own ideas on us, and we revolted.

I think the best way to manage this forum is a laissez-faire approach, stepping in only when things get too rough or too personal. For the most part though, posters here are generally as good at taking it as they are at dishing it out.
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Enrico Palazzo wrote:
It does seem that things, sometimes, on this board ... do not make sense ... and are beyond mystery,
as some might venture to say.

As far as what was said by Igotthisguitar, he speaks of censorship, because ... he would, perhaps, like to say whatever he would like

without using ... "responsible" speech?
Rolling Eyes

Responsible speech?

Crucify IGTG ...

i'll say it again: DAVE'S ESL has the most radical, "mysterious" censorship policies i've yet to come across on the internet.

Metta.
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yawarakaijin



Joined: 08 Aug 2006

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

igotthisguitar wrote:
yawarakaijin wrote:
igotthisguitar wrote:
Too much *beeping* censorship.

Worst i've in fact yet to come across on the "web".

pro-PAGAN-da ...

p.s. Funny avatar



LOL, what does this mean!?

I mean, I'm really curious. Are you trying to link the ancient pagan religions with censorship?

Were the pagans the first to employ propaganda? I need to know.


No, the PAGANS were the first "targets".

Do you know what the word pagan really means?

Also, why do you so desperately "need" to know?

i'd like to know Wink


If the pagans were the first targets why is it called PRO-PAGAN-da. Secondly what does DA in PRO-PAGAN-DA mean?

This is very confusing and. Has everything I learnt about prefixs and their meanings been a complete lie? I'm so confused right now IGTG, please help me.

I'm not sure I know much about pagans. Just that one scientist...what was his name? Carl...Pagan? Something about believing in nature and universe, is that where Paganism comes from? And why don't they like that dude. Seemed like a pretty reasonable to me. I need your help IGTG, dont let me down. I'm sure you have links for all my questions. Wink
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igotthisguitar



Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)

PostPosted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yes, you sadly seem quite confused.

Likely the victim of life-long propaganda.
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