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Unposter
Joined: 04 Jun 2006
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Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:11 am Post subject: |
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I don't believe this is just merely a down turn in the economic cycle. Much of the problem is that the U.S. Government has been spending much more than it has been taking in, in a large part due to spending on the War on Iraq.
Those countless Billions, maybe Trillions that the U.S. government has thrown down the toilet in Iraq is really going to haunt us.
This has been exacerbated by the U.S. Government's poor job in regulating businesses and the stock market. Examples of this include the subprime loan crisis and securities companies buying stock on margin. It is definately a bad time to be buying Financials.
Oil prices and contracted domestic spending are just the kicker.
The world is working hard and Bush has helped to depress the American dollar in order to keep oil prices lower (for non-Americans) as oil must be purchased in U.S. dollars. If the dollar were to strengthened, Europe might push the issue of using the Euro to purchase oil. Bush doesn't want this and has been keeping the dollar cheap to pacify European concerns. Of course, this does hurt the average American who lives pay check to pay check but so be it.
The reality is that Bush has fiddled while the American economy has withered. As long as he can play soldier in Iraq and torture a few Muslims, Bush doesn't seem to care much.
But, do I think this is the end of America? Heck no! Not that I think the Dems will be any great saviors either. I just think the U.S. is in for some serious adjustments. Its going to take more than 6 months to a year to fix this mess. But, America has a lot of resiliancy and it has overcome worse. Just don't expect a quick fix.
I just hope it finally puts to rest the myth that Republicans are good for the economy as their policies have been anything but. |
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MollyBloom

Joined: 21 Jul 2006 Location: James Joyce's pants
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Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 11:06 am Post subject: |
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A lot of good points, but the things that truly scare me are the things that are completely out of our control. Such as our federal reserve not being owned buy us. We don't even own our own money!!!
People that say Bush is horrible are right...but he is a figurehead and too stupid to think all of this stuff up. The internationalists that are running the world tell him what to do.
If you do some much-needed research, you can learn a lot about the Builderberg Group, Council on Foreign Relations (just LOOK at their "corporate members"), and the internationalist families like the Rockefellers and the Rothschilds who have been building their plan since before WWII.
The thing is, once you have so much money, you can only turn to power, and this one-world government scares me. Look at Korea: I came here to experience something new, and while I have had a lot of great experiences, there are Western fast-food places on every corner (I have not been to rural Korea, so I don't know how many Burger King's are out there). A lot of the time I feel like I am in Koreatown or in the Korean areas of Boston, but with a LOT more Korean people. No culture shock for me, and I was disappointed.
I just don't want to merge with Canada or Mexico because I think it's important for every country to keep its culture, borders, and language. Look at the schools we work at: they all want to be GLOBAL!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bilderberg_Group
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Council_of_Foreign_Relations |
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jetrash

Joined: 02 Jun 2007 Location: the united steaks
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Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 12:25 pm Post subject: |
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Roch wrote: |
jetrash wrote: |
old enough to remember empires falling overnight.... |
Are you of Korean ancestry? If not, what's your nationality?
Also, do you really believe that Gershwin, Fitzgerald, and N.A.S.A. are the only stories worth mentioning in U.S. history?
Cordially,
R |
jackson pollock was ok too,at a pinch.
im british.white.european.
are you american,by any chance?? |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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The US economy is $13 trillion dollars. The sub prime fall out represents $100 billion.
100 000 000 000 / 13 000 000 000 000 = .007. That doesn't even represent 1% of the USA's GDP. Financial institutions are going to scream for federal dollars like everyone screams for federal dollars when they're in the headlines.
So at worst the USA falls into a recession. Been there. Done that. In bad times, Koreans learn english to get ahead. Well, you're in Korea. You got a job. Extend another year. Don't panic.
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A lot of good points, but the things that truly scare me are the things that are completely out of our control. Such as our federal reserve not being owned buy us. We don't even own our own money!!! |
The fed is an arms length US institution. It was created by an act of congress and can be changed at any time by congress. It was created to take money creation out of the hands of politicians. There are two ways governments can raise funds. Raise taxes or print more money. Raising taxes is not popular. Most people don't mind the government throwing money at them. But printing money to pay for political whims isn't a great idea. Hence, the fed was created to be an independent body. The last 20 years the fed has done a good job keeping inflation under control. Economic expansions have been longer than ever before and recessions have been shorter and milder than ever before. |
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Pligganease

Joined: 14 Sep 2004 Location: The deep south...
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Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:33 pm Post subject: |
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jetrash wrote: |
jackson pollock was ok too,at a pinch.
im british.white.european.
are you american,by any chance?? |
Did you learn to type on a cellphone? |
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reactionary
Joined: 22 Oct 2006 Location: korreia
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Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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how long had the american economy been in good shape anyway? it definitely wasn't from the mid 60s-mid 80s. i still believe there's a boom-bust cycle. yeah, it really sucks that we're hitting the bust while we're in our 20s or 30s and a lot of us are still trying to start our lives, but what can ya do? |
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newton kabiddles
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:26 pm Post subject: |
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The USA is nothing more than the name of a country |
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mikeyboy122
Joined: 28 Feb 2008 Location: namyang
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Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:33 pm Post subject: economy |
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Estimated cost of Iraq war? 3 TRILLION!!!!!!!!!! Bush has broke the back of the U.S. Middle-class-all but gone. Housing DOWN- equity gone. Credit cards-maxed out. When Clinton left office we were a good way into the black. When Bush leaves? Trillions in the hole. Heaven help us if China ever calls in its chips. We'll be suc*ing d*ck for beer money. Did you vote for Bush? Did you? The American dream for future generations? Can you see it? One third of the 300 million people in the U.S. live in or near poverty. Verifiable facts, one and all. I can cite sources if you'd like. I'm 50 years old. Will I see social security? Very little chance. To all you 20 somethings out there-what do you think will be left for you? Can you see it? Look closely. And you know what? I'm a positive person. I'm no pessimist. I just crunch numbers. Do you? If so, what do YOU forsee? And I'm still wondering what exactly do we get if we "win" this war?
Footnote: First let me preface by saying I am religious and I believe in God. But as the late GREAT Frank Zappa once said,"Tax the CHURCHES, and tax the BUSINESSES owned by the CHURCHES" Yours truly would like to add, "When they pass the plate, put food ON it, not money IN it". Tuition in France? 0$ Many countries do not start their freshly graduated college students off with massive debt. Why do we? (U.S.) Why do you think our country and MEDIA always speak ill of France. Universal health care for one. Check out the profits of some of the H.M.O's and medicine manufacturers. They set their own prices. What sort of capitalism would YOU call that? Which reminds me, even if you hate Michael Moorer, you must watch "Sicko". You can see it free on surfthechannel.com. And while you're at it, take a look at "Loose change, Part 2". Open eyes=Open mind. Points to ponder. Good day and good luck.
Last edited by mikeyboy122 on Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:31 am; edited 2 times in total |
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twg

Joined: 02 Nov 2006 Location: Getting some fresh air...
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Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:35 pm Post subject: Re: economy |
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mikeyboy122 wrote: |
And I'm still wondering what exactly do we get if we "win" this war? |
High-fives for everyone and the right to chant "USA! USA!" for as long as you want. |
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fusionbarnone
Joined: 31 May 2004
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Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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Recessions/financial corrections or whatever term is in vogue shouldn't bother you too much. You'll get work. Don't let the scare-mongering upset you. All economies have ups and downs. |
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meangradin

Joined: 10 Mar 2006
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Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:06 pm Post subject: |
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"Heaven help us if China ever calls in its chips. We'll be suc*ing d*ck for beer money."
This is the funniest thing I've read in a long time! I can't even type, as I'm laughing so hard.
The middle class is going the way of the dodo. The economic problems facing the US are many fold; debt at an astronimcal level; shipping of decent (manufacturing) jobs to to China; lack of retirement planning (401k plan = total scam) to name but a few. |
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jetrash

Joined: 02 Jun 2007 Location: the united steaks
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Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:30 pm Post subject: |
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Pligganease wrote: |
jetrash wrote: |
jackson pollock was ok too,at a pinch.
im british.white.european.
are you american,by any chance?? |
Did you learn to type on a cellphone? |
yes i did..and im typing thisone handed,horizonal in bed.
and no,im not an english teacher.
next question |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 5:30 am Post subject: |
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meangradin wrote: |
The middle class is going the way of the dodo. The economic problems facing the US are many fold; debt at an astronimcal level; shipping of decent (manufacturing) jobs to to China; lack of retirement planning (401k plan = total scam) to name but a few. |
Actually the middle class isn't going the way of the dodo. It's migrating to the upper class.
http://www.townhall.com/columnists/WalterEWilliams/2007/12/05/income_mobility
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What about claims of a disappearing middle class? Let's do some detective work. Controlling for inflation, in 1967, 8 percent of households had an annual income of $75,000 and up; in 2003, more than 26 percent did. In 1967, 17 percent of households had a $50,000 to $75,000 income; in 2003, it was 18 percent. In 1967, 22 percent of households were in the $35,000 to $50,000 income group; by 2003, it had fallen to 15 percent. During the same period, the $15,000 to $35,000 category fell from 31 percent to 25 percent, and the under $15,000 category fell from 21 percent to 16 percent. The only reasonable conclusion from this evidence is that if the middle class is disappearing, it's doing so by swelling the ranks of the upper classes. |
Americans are living longer:
http://www.worldhealth.net/p/americans-living-longer-than-ever-2006-11-14.html
Americans homes are bigger than ever before:
http://realestate.aol.com/article/_a/honey-i-stretched-the-house-again/20060803162509990001
American manufacturing is at record levels:
http://freetrade.org/node/737/print
America with 300 million people manufactures 2 times what China manufactures with 1 billion people.
It's not doom and gloom.
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"Heaven help us if China ever calls in its chips. We'll be suc*ing d*ck for beer money." |
What does this mean exactly? What it means is all the dollars Americans have sent to China China will return to the USA by purchasing land, investing in the American stock market, etc. The only thing you can do with US dollars is buy American goods and services. If you own a condo in New York and a Chinese guy wants to get rid of US dollars and own something and he's willing to pay you above market price because he's keen on shedding dollars, are you the loser in that transaction?
Think of it this way. You have a huge trade deficit with the local super market. They buy almost nothing from you. You give them all your money. What if tomorrow they suddenly gave you back all the money you gave them. Who is the winner, here? |
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bacasper

Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:14 am Post subject: |
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idonojacs wrote: |
But the fact is that if you elect a crooked idiot as President, and then re-elect him over an honest intelligent person, you fully deserve to get what you paid for. |
Need I remind you, he wasn't elected? |
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xingyiman
Joined: 12 Jan 2006
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Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 7:19 am Post subject: |
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The problem with America for 40 years or so is that our banks and other lending institutions have been financing a myth. The Cambodians could live as high on the hog and flaunt wealth like the Americans do IF they were given access to the credit that we have had. How many people really own their Lexus or that big 5 bedroom home? None of them. THe banks all own it and the only reason the average American is enjoying the use of them is that they are making rent/interest payments.
I saw this coming a long time ago but everyone thought I was full of it. And this was in the 1990's when everyone was bathing in their stock dividends.
Americans in the 1990's got too heady and were spending more than they were earning for the first time in history. Then the job market began to collapse. All of a sudden there were jobs in abundance for people with years of experience but none for entry level college grads. This began to put pressure on lending institutions who had to give waivers to grads who now couldn't secure jobs to allow them to start making payments. It also fostered further expansion of unhealthy fly by night service industry jobs capitalizing on the glut of highly educated but inexperienced people who were by the current standards unemployable. The bloated service industry further drained real wealth from Americans who were already much in hock to the credit card companies who would always issue new cards and raised credit lines to people who couldn't afford them.
Well. America it's payday. I am an American but what we are experiencing now is the result of greed plain and simple and this time we can't blame it all on "big business". Actually we can blame a lot of it on them but not in the traditional sense. If big business would bring some of the wealth home and create good aying jobs for Americans that would be great but they are outsourcing everything. Even longstanding secure jobs such as accountant are being foisted off on poor, third world nations. America is in the bad situation of needing to sell it's services from the service economy to fellow American's who have no jobs to pay for the services. Maybe now they can out source the customer base as well. |
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