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arjuna
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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 Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 8:51 am Post subject: |
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The Fed and International Banksters Must Go.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o6qy2lVEhjs
Arjuna does not necessarily agree with or endorse everything in the above video. For example, interest is a usurpation of value-producing human labor and should be abolished outright. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
The dollar is now worth less than 2% of what it was in the year that the Federal Reserve was created. |
While the Fed maintains (or at least tries to maintain) a steady rate of inflation which causes prices to increase, that is balanced by higher average incomes.
Average annual salary in 1920 - $1236
Average annual salary in 2000 - $55,714
If you keep your earnings in cash, you're getting screwed. If you invest it in the stock market or real estate, you're doing okay.
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| The only effective way to measure the inflation of the dollar is to compare it to gold. |
Why? People don't need to buy gold. People need to buy things like bread and milk and cars. The only endearing quality of gold is that it is shiny and has an extended shelf life. True, gold is currently in a bull market, for a number of reasons. It also lost value (compared to the dollar) in both the 80s and 90s.
The gold bugs get to come out less frequently than the cicadas do, so enjoy the limelight. |
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Pluto
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Fri Mar 14, 2008 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah, everyone's standard of living throughout the entire world has improved quite a bit even since Nixon's supposed betrayal to the dollar. Just because the dollar continues to fall in comparison to gold doesn't make us any less prosperous.
Also, it almost seems silly to constrain the money supply simply on the whims of gold's value. The money supply needs more flexibility if the economy is to grow and we wish to see our standard of living improve. I'm not endorsing Bernanke, the Federal Reserve or even current monetary policy but our lives are not that bad.
Don't forget that gold has nothing to do with our standard of living. In fact, I've got a nice full service kitchen that I use to cook three meals a day. I also doubt anyone here has any type of food or shelter insecurity either. I am typing from a pretty decent PC with Internet access. I also have an HDTV with a blu-ray. Again, I'm sure many posters on this forum enjoy the same benefits.
Moreover, hunger and poverty continue to decline throughout the world. The world wide growth rate has been 6~7% in the last 10 years so it would appear that, indeed, the world is becoming more prosperous year by year. Unless, of course, this is not the reality and you wish to continue your ridiculous assertion that we will all be living in some type of Mad Max fantasy land by 2025 if we don't move back to hard currency immediately  |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 9:30 am Post subject: |
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Gold is over $1010 per oz right now.
It already bounced up over $1030 today, it's headed for $2000 or more in the next 12 months, if the dollar survives.
Listen to Peter Schiff. He says you should get far away from the dollar:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1_Yo2BGdUk
The crash of the dollar is coming. I thought it would be later 2020 to 2024, but it could hit any time now. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:12 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
Gold is over $1010 per oz right now.
It already bounced up over $1030 today, it's headed for $2000 or more in the next 12 months, if the dollar survives.
Listen to Peter Schiff. He says you should get far away from the dollar:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T1_Yo2BGdUk
The crash of the dollar is coming. I thought it would be later 2020 to 2024, but it could hit any time now. |
Hope you're buying gold then. Are you? |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 10:46 am Post subject: |
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We should use gold as money, but there are better investments. Other than short term speculation, gold is not really an investment. For hundreds of years, its value has benn fairly constant. It has been a stable form of money for thousands of years.
As I wrote before, I got completely out of dollars some years ago (except for dollars needed for immediate purchases from the US, which I buy as needed). Many real assets such as real estate and well run businesses can survive the coming meltdown of the world's fiat currencies. In the interim, they have a positive cash flow, and a high rate of return which gold doesn't have. I just have to turn the cash into more non-fiat currency assets as it comes in each month. |
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mole
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Act III
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| Posted: Mon Mar 17, 2008 11:43 pm Post subject: |
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Maybe related, though emphasis is on silver:
Silver Coin Proposal
On second look, kinda dated, but interesting if updated. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 5:31 am Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| As I wrote before, I got completely out of dollars some years ago (except for dollars needed for immediate purchases from the US, which I buy as needed). Many real assets such as real estate and well run businesses can survive the coming meltdown of the world's fiat currencies. In the interim, they have a positive cash flow, and a high rate of return which gold doesn't have. I just have to turn the cash into more non-fiat currency assets as it comes in each month. |
The US dollar can't crash. That would mean Boeing, Microsoft, property in New York, etc. have little to no value. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| As I wrote before, I got completely out of dollars some years ago (except for dollars needed for immediate purchases from the US, which I buy as needed). Many real assets such as real estate and well run businesses can survive the coming meltdown of the world's fiat currencies. In the interim, they have a positive cash flow, and a high rate of return which gold doesn't have. I just have to turn the cash into more non-fiat currency assets as it comes in each month. |
The US dollar can't crash. That would mean Boeing, Microsoft, property in New York, etc. have little to no value. |
Sorry, MMT, but you are parroting the lies you have been fed by government propagandists.
Property in NY has real value. If you own it outright it will still have the same real value after the dollar crashes to zero. It's just that you wouldn't be stupid enough to sell it for dollars. You might exchange it for gold, oil, common stocks, but not worthless dollars.
The same is true of Boeing, Microsoft or any other company. The real assets they hold would still have value. The real production they are able to undertake could still produce income and, hopefully, profits. Businesses would lose to the extent that they hold dollars and any dollar denominated assets, but they should survive.
The dollar is just a commodity. If it is backed by gold, gold secures its value. If it is backed by silver, silver secures its value. If it is backed by nothing, nothing secures its value and it is called a "fiat currency."
Microsoft, Boeing and property in NY have NOTHING to do with the value of the dollar. NOTHING. If you have been mislead into believing that, I'm truly sorry that you fell for the lies.
The US government still holds a large quantity of gold. The United Kingdom liquidated nearly all of its gold at about $250 per ounce. It apparently happened a decade ago. The US has secretly liquidated a large percentage of its remaining gold backing as well. They are maintaining phoney assets on the books a la Enron. These steps were taken to flood the market and explain the temporary decline of gold prices during the late 90s.
Of course, that gold is now gone. The market has absorbed it and the governments of the world have even fewer hard assets left to back the paper issued.
This was a foolish gambit by the Fed and the British (and perhaps other central banks) to defeat market forces. That is impossible, of course, as market forces are based on the laws of nature. The same laws of physics and chemistry that control all else in the universe. The laws of economics and the laws of liberty are as elemental and immutable as the laws of physics - even if comprehension of the unified laws of nature is limited to four score per billion.
Secretary of the Treasury Paulson has admitted that the economy is in a serious recession now, although he still refused to say those words. There is nothing left to stop the recession, and unless we act quickly to return to hard money (gold/silver 100% backing) we will see global depression and the collapse of the world's fiat currencies. |
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jaykimf
Joined: 24 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 4:57 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
| ontheway wrote: |
| As I wrote before, I got completely out of dollars some years ago (except for dollars needed for immediate purchases from the US, which I buy as needed). Many real assets such as real estate and well run businesses can survive the coming meltdown of the world's fiat currencies. In the interim, they have a positive cash flow, and a high rate of return which gold doesn't have. I just have to turn the cash into more non-fiat currency assets as it comes in each month. |
The US dollar can't crash. That would mean Boeing, Microsoft, property in New York, etc. have little to no value. |
Sorry, MMT, but you are parroting the lies you have been fed by government propagandists.
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Sorry, but you are parroting the lies you have been fed by crackpot gold bugs. The U.S. is not going to go back to the gold standard. Its not going to happen. Get over it. Why don't you stop listening to the crackpots and read some books by real economists? |
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ernie
Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Location: asdfghjk
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| Posted: Tue Mar 18, 2008 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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ontheway isn't saying that the US will go back to a gold standard... he's saying that without a gold standard, the USD has no real value, only perceived value, which poses a serious threat to the country...
would you consider alan greenspan to be a 'real economist'? i suggest YOU do some reading:
Alan Greenspan - Gold and Economic Freedom
http://www.usagold.com/gildedopinion/greenspan.html |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 1:35 am Post subject: |
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| ernie wrote: |
| ontheway isn't saying that the US will go back to a gold standard... he's saying that without a gold standard, the USD has no real value, only perceived value, which poses a serious threat to the country... |
The value of everything is "perceived." If 1,000,000 tons of gold were discovered in Antarctica, what do you think would happen to its price?
And what did he do to move the US towards the gold standard during his 20 years as chairman of the Fed? |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 8:31 am Post subject: |
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And what did he do to move the US towards the gold standard during his 20 years as chairman of the Fed?[/quote]
The Chairman of the Fed cannot put the US on the gold standard. Only Congress can do that. Congress is, in fact, required to do that under the Constitution, but Congress has ignored that little document for decades.
Some members of Congress have actually admitted that they were unaware that the US was NOT on a gold standard. A significant percentage of the public has also been misled to believe that the US dollar is still backed by gold.
As to expecting the US to go back on the gold standard: No, I do not expect that to happen until the countries of the world issue NEW money after the coming collapse of the fiat currencies. At that point in time they will have no choice. No one will take their new currencies if they are not backed by gold and or silver. Although, they may attempt to issue new fiat money first and only relent after the rapid second collapse that would ensue.
To survive:
Hold on to your hard assets.
Liquidate your fiat currency denominated assets. |
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huffdaddy
Joined: 25 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Wed Mar 19, 2008 2:22 pm Post subject: |
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| ontheway wrote: |
| Quote: |
And what did he do to move the US towards the gold standard during his 20 years as chairman of the Fed? |
The Chairman of the Fed cannot put the US on the gold standard.
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If Greenspan was a true believer in the gold standard, you'd think he would have done a little more to sway public opinion during his 20 years as Fed chairman. Outside of his 1967 commentary, what has he said or done to show his belief that gold is the way to go? |
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