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| Have you raised "TIBET" as an in-class conversation discussion issue? |
| Yes ( free-talking, assigned essays, homework, research etc ) |
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20% |
[ 3 ] |
| No ( "too-hot" to touch, don't care, don't wanna know ) |
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46% |
[ 7 ] |
| No ( not yet, but now that you mention it, just maybe i will ) |
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13% |
[ 2 ] |
| What's a TIBET? |
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20% |
[ 3 ] |
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| Total Votes : 15 |
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greedy_bones
Joined: 01 Jul 2007
Location: not quite sure anymore
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 Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| nicholas_chiasson wrote: |
I think you're full of it
No way any class, of YOUNG TEENAGERS in Korea would ever write IN CLASS ESSAYS.
Essays? Essays? I worked with uni students from Korea in the US. It took them hours to put a single argument into English, and your little braniacs are not only so well informed by your ramblings on Tibet, but they cranked at essays!? |
It seems like you've had some pretty bad luck with the level of English ability in your students. It really depends on the level of teaching they've had at a young age. If they haven't been taught writing until they're college age, then yes they're essays are going to suck. But if they were taught writing effectively when they were young, then they can do in class essays which rival those of native speakers.
I've had several students who could write very decent essays. The only major problems with these essays were the usage of articles and the actual content of the essays. For example, one student I had wrote an essay with flawless English and arguments for fan death. |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 9:44 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, I raised it with Chinese students in an international graduate program the other day.
Here's what I posed for them to consider:
1. If all of the Tibetan protesters were wearing orange saffron robes and carrying musical instruments as they roamed the plateau, would the Chinese security forces be justified in shooting them on sight?
Overwhelming response was in the affirmative--a telling trend, perhaps? |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Fri Mar 21, 2008 10:35 pm Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
Yes, I raised it with Chinese students in an international graduate program the other day.
Here's what I posed for them to consider:
1. If all of the Tibetan protesters were wearing orange saffron robes and carrying musical instruments as they roamed the plateau, would the Chinese security forces be justified in shooting them on sight?
Overwhelming response was in the affirmative--a telling trend, perhaps? |
How Much Do the Chinese Know About Tibet?
Chinese Government Censors Clamping Down on News of Protests
http://www.abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=4487327&page=1
Last edited by igotthisguitar on Sat Mar 22, 2008 1:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 12:22 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| US House of Representatives Speaker Nancy Pelosi speaks to reporters after the meeting with the Dalai Lama in Dharamsala. China turned its back Saturday on appeals for dialogue with the Dalai Lama, vowing to smash anti-China forces in Tibet. |
Chinese State Media: 'Crush' Tibet Protests
BEIJING - The flagship newspaper of China's ruling Communist Party called Saturday for efforts to "resolutely crush"
anti-occupation demonstrations by Tibetans, while Beijing urged people to turn in those on a "Most Wanted" list of 21 protesters
MORE ...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080322/ap_on_re_as/china_tibet;_ylt=AhNVkNWAxwtpGOf9hJzx95oEtbAF |
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crusher_of_heads
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Location: kimbop and kimchi for kimberly!!!!
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:37 am Post subject: |
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| I try to avoid political stuff-back in Canada, I made the mistake of giving an answer, albeith white purebread and inoffensive to the Israel-Hamaas conflict in Lebanon in 2006. Of course, it was to ENG2P tards, so I should have known better. |
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vertical loser
Joined: 08 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:49 am Post subject: |
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DP
Last edited by vertical loser on Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:57 am; edited 1 time in total |
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vertical loser
Joined: 08 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:50 am Post subject: |
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DP
Last edited by vertical loser on Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
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vertical loser
Joined: 08 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sat Mar 22, 2008 4:55 am Post subject: |
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[quote="pugwall"]
| ulsanchris wrote: |
In know way do I support the Chinas use of force against its own people but Tiananmen square was a lot more complicated than the Western media made out. Beijing had basically been shut down and a lot of undesirable elements had taken over the protestors. It was a BIG mistake and dialogue broke down to such a huge extent. I think you will find most older people know about what happened. They know more than most people in the Western world as our media is biased as well. |
It's great that your western liberal education has allowed you to empathise with other peoples and other perspectives. But your multi-perspectivism has become relativism. The Chinese media is not "biased", as the west's is. It is controlled by a single-party authoritarian system of govt. Older Chinese people who lived around Beijing do in fact know quite a bit about Tiananmen. But not too many under 40. My own wife is Chinese. The first time I took her out of China three years ago at the age of 30, I showed her that picture of the young guy in front of the tank in Beijing in 1989. She had never seen the picture before. When I told her what it was, she declared it a "fake", because "that could never happen in China."
Just go to www.chinadaily.com.cn now and see how "open" their coverage is of the Tibet riots. They are actually turning it into yet another opportunity to foster Chinese "nationalism" via its common theme - hatred of the other. In this case it's the west and the Dalai Lama who are conspiring against China, because they are jealous. Believe me, it is turning ugly back there. I predict that if some major western nations boycott the Olympics there will be a major international incident. The Chinese already believe they are the victims of the world. Such a move would only confirm it. I have seen enough in the last few days to be concerned that if social instability continues, the Beijing authorities may up the anti, and use the west as a whipping boy, just as they did in Mao's day. Although there have been many significant and important developments in China in the last 30 years, their worldview is still grounded in the past. When the shid hits the fan, it's China vs the evil other.
I was actually hoping this would not happen, or that if it did, Beijing would act in a way that showed a matured worldview. Despite plenty of exceptions, many western media outlets actually try hard to show China in a good light. I have been very impressed by the BBC's coverage of China recently. Coincidentally, BBC Asia has recently had a China week, and so many programs focused upon the good things in China in a way that was fantastic to see. But China has not repaid the respect. The Chinese internet is afire with hate for the BBC and the western press, and their attempts to bring China down. There has been no attempt to address the Tibet issue at its core, i.e. the Tibetans' strong sense of anger and injustice at the 1950 invasion and subsequent events, including uprisings. This is a key to it, as I see it. When China actually acknowledges its own role in the Tibetan issue (instead of blaming the Dalai Lama and the west), then there will be a chance for healing. But for such a change of position, the ruling Communist Party will need to release control of power to a certain degree, and begin to address its own crimes against humanity, which are deep and vast. In turn this will require an admission that its authoritarian power has to be genuinely loosened, perhaps released. That is the bottom line here. The riots in Tibet are a function of a political system that places perpetuation of a self-serving political system above truth and justice. While there is no freedom of press, rule of law, independent judiciary, public sphere for open discourse, nor corporate development (instead of market Leninism), China will continue to be a real headache for the world.
What will shift all this is the fact that in the next decade China has to shift from being a manufacturing economy and begin the march towards being a knowledge economy. This will not happen with market Leninism. Expect chaos and instability if China's leaders fail to have the foresight to realise this. I suspect only a great degree of pain and turmoil will bring this lesson home. The current blame game indicates clearly that leaders are falling back into old Maoist thought patterns. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:35 am Post subject: |
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What's DP supposed to mean?
China Bashes Pelosi, Dalai Lama; Thailand Torchbearer Withdraws
( In Protest Of Tibet Crackdown )
By CARA ANNA
Associated Press Writer
CHENGDU, China (AP) -- China lashed out Sunday at critics of its crackdown on Tibetan protesters, describing U.S. House Speaker Nancy Pelosi as "habitually bad tempered'' while claiming the Western media serve those who want to "smear" ... the communist country.
The barrage of complaints carried in official media -- which included more broadsides against the Dalai Lama -- came as the country sought to present its own version of the deadly anti-Chinese protests and their aftermath. The crackdown has been a public relations disaster for China ahead of the Beijing Olympics -- a Thailand torchbearer withdrew Sunday in protest.
With foreign media banned and troops dispatched en masse to quell the most widespread demonstrations against Chinese rule in nearly five decades, independent information barely trickled out of the Tibetan capital Lhasa and other far-flung communities.
The People's Daily, the main mouthpiece of the Communist Party, placed the blame for the recent riots on Tibet's exiled spiritual leader, the Nobel Peace Prize-winning Dalai Lama.
"The Dalai clique is scheming to take the Beijing Olympics hostage to force the Chinese government to make concessions to Tibet independence,'' it said.
The attacks on the Dalai Lama have been aimed at further demonizing him in the eyes of the Chinese public, which strongly supports the Olympics. The Dalai Lama, who advocates nonviolence and denies being behind the March 14 riots in Lhasa, asserted Sunday that he has supported China's hosting of the summer Games.
"I mean the Olympics...take place in Beijing...so that more than 1 billion human beings, that means Chinese, they feel proud of it,'' he said on the sidelines of a Buddhist prayer session in New Delhi.
The official Xinhua New Agency, meanwhile, published a commentary bashing Pelosi, a fierce critic of China who on Friday visited the Dalai Lama at his headquarters in India, where she called China's crackdown "a challenge to the conscience of the world.''
Xinhua accused Pelosi of ignoring the violence caused by the Tibetan rioters. "'Human rights police' like Pelosi are habitually bad tempered and ungenerous when it comes to China, refusing to check their facts and find out the truth of the case,'' it said.
China has been hoping to use the August Olympics to "bolster" its international image 
MORE ...
http://www.dailymail.com/News/200803230070
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080323/ap_on_re_as/china_tibet |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:07 am Post subject: |
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IGTG:
Pelosi is an opportunistic beech and a typically clueless, jump-on-the-bandwagon San Fran liberal.
She knows next to nothing about China's relationship with Tibet but wouldn't miss the chance for a photo-op with the Dalai Lama for the world. Probably lit joss sticks with Richard Gere afterward in a moment of somber remembrance.
Try to stretch your mind and read a cover story in The Atlantic Monthly, (do a Google search) about Han Chinese attitudes toward Tibet. |
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nicholas_chiasson
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Location: Samcheok
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 3:16 am Post subject: |
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| -The only thing that gets me, is that you're not really DEFENDING China's human rights policies are you? Steve_McGarret? You can not be THAT out there? I'm as confused as anyone else why Tibet gets more media attention than Burma did, and with the 2008 Games it is obvious that all eyes be on China. But please, please don't tell me you think China has ever been justified for arresting and enslaving its own people... |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 5:48 am Post subject: |
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| stevemcgarrett wrote: |
| Try to stretch your mind and read a cover story in The Atlantic Monthly, (do a Google search) about Han Chinese attitudes toward Tibet. |
How Much Do the Chinese Know About Tibet?
Chinese Government Censors Clamping Down on News of Protests
http://www.abcnews.go.com/International/story?id=4487327&page=1
Age-old Chinese proverb:
"Close your doors before beating your dog."
| pugwall wrote: |
| igotthisguitar wrote: |
Mao knew exactly what he was doing, and what he aimed to acheive in "uniting" the "motherland".
For its part, South Korea would even today likely have been under Chinese control had it not been for maverick McCarthur's bold decsion to launch a counter-assault on Incheon.
Massing approx. 40,000 troops on Tibet's ( the great western treasure house ) eastern borders 1949, and then within but a few months helping to create a major int'l distaction down on the Korean Penninsula.
The whole world, media included, courtesy of the UN etc. was completely focused on KOREA while China freely had its way with TIBET.
1950-1951 invasion of Tibet by China
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1950-1951_invasion_of_Tibet
1950 invasion of South Korea by North Korea with Soviet support
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Korean_War#Order_of_battle
1950 invasion of North Korea by United Nations and South Korea
1951 invasion of South Korea by the Chinese People's Volunteer Army and North Korea
1951 invasion of North Korea by United Nations and South Korea
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_invasions
After raising the issue, filling them in on the history, looming Olympics, human rights angles etc.
i was surprised & proud of my students.
They all wrote in-class essays, went home & asked their parents about China's occupation of TIBET, how it parallels
Japan's lording over Korea for so long ( the people here can REALLY identify with this ) etc.
One young teenage girl told me she's now even doing a in-class speech on the matter at her public school.
i told her that not only does this constitute "good karma", but that many suffering & disembodied Tibetans would,
if they could, likely want to very much thank her for her efforts as well |
Mao had no idea what he was doing. |
Really? Care to explain?
Clearly Mao knew exactly what he was doing.
40,000 troops were strategically positioned in the west ( TIBET ), with many others helping manufacture a subsequent major "distraction" in the south east ( i.e. Korea ), thus allowing the PLA to easily invade the "WESTERN TREASURE HOUSE".
| Quote: |
In mid-February, Beijing published a report announcing the 'discovery' of an estimated USD 128 billion worth of minerals in more than 600 sites in Tibet - a result of a seven-year programme by more than a thousand surveyors to geologically map the plateau.
Their findings are large enough to astound: a billion tonnes of iron ore, 40 million tonnes each of lead and copper. Such a backyard stockpile would be a huge shot in the arm for the Chinese economy, which has struggled increasingly in recent years to keep up with domestic demand for raw minerals in the face of steeply rising international prices.
If the finds are as large as Beijing reports, they would double China's current stores of lead, copper and zinc. Tibet's mineral wealth seems to now justify the alluring traditional Chinese name for central Tibet - Xizang, roughly translating to 'Western Treasure House'. |
Deng-Xiao-Peng & Joe-and-lie also had a hand in things, logistics, timing, long term strategy etc.
The invasion of Tibet & the Korean War are thus inextricably linked. |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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stvwrd
Joined: 31 Mar 2005
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| Posted: Mon Mar 24, 2008 11:49 pm Post subject: Re: Have you raised TIBET as an in-class ESL discussion issu |
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This wasn't the main point of the OP, but I'd just like clarification on one thing:
| igotthisguitar wrote: |
If McCarthur had not defied the US President, and launched a successful offensive via Incheon, Korean policies could have today found itself under a more obvious & exclusive Chinese rule.[/size] |
The invasion of Incheon was in defiance of Truman? A large scale invasion seems like a much bigger deal than what he ended up getting fired for, which was sending letters.
The wikipedia article on the Incheon invasion seems to suggest that the usual chain of command was followed:
| Quote: |
| Despite these obstacles, in September MacArthur issued a revised plan of assault on Inchon: Plan 100-B, codenamed Operation Chromite. A briefing led by Admiral James Doyle concluded "the best that I can say is that Inchon is not impossible." Officers at the briefing spent much of their time asking about alternative landing sites such as Kunsan. MacArthur spent 45 minutes after the briefing explaining his reasons for choosing Inchon. He said that because it was so heavily defended, the enemy would not expect an attack there, that victory at Inchon would avoid a brutal winter campaign, and that, by invading a northern strong point, the UN forces could cut off North Korean lines of communication. Inchon was also chosen because of its proximity to Seoul. Admiral Forrest P. Sherman and General J. Lawton Collins returned to Washington, D.C., and had the invasion approved. |
Not that Wikipedia is the best source on anything, but this is just the first I've heard that the invasion of Incheon was done in defiance of Truman. If true, I'm kind of surprised I never learned it through multiple visits to the Truman Presidential Library, where I learned most of what I know about the war (which really isn't all that much). |
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igotthisguitar
Joined: 08 Apr 2003
Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:22 am Post subject: Re: Have you raised TIBET as an in-class ESL discussion issu |
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i can't exactly recall where it was that i heard that MacArthur defied his superiors ( may have been history channel? )
but this has been my impression for some time.
Is it actually "true"? Dunno. Wouldn't surprise me mind you.
Personally i hold the man in high regard.
Mao surely would have loved to have had BOTH TIBET AND SOUTH KOREA.
As is stands the Korean conflict merely served as a convenient distraction while the Chinese occupied Tibet.
Major power-play executed on two fronts
| stvwrd wrote: |
| The wikipedia article on the Incheon invasion seems to suggest that ... |
Nuff said  |
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