Korean Job Discussion Forums

[The_Conservative]

[caniff]

Because it is a region that environmentally cannot support the number of people living there (massive over-population).

The list starts there..

[Adventurer]

Historically, if we look at say the Arab countries it was Egypt and the fertile crescent countries that were doing well. The fertile crescent countries are: Syria, Lebanon, Iraq, Jordan, and Lebanon. These countries are not doing well because of the governments they have in place. If Lebanon's moderates can stir the Shiites from the South to jump ship in larger numbers from Hezbollah, progress can be made, and Syria is sabotaging Lebanon and making the US very angry about that. Jordan has a highly educated population, a half British king whose father as well as him have been organizing the kingdom, modernizing it in many ways, and it is one of the more progressive countries, but it doesn't have many industries, just many highly educated, literate people. Egypt has way too many people, the socialist programme of Nasser was a disaster and so were the wars Nasser got Egypt into, and Egypt has yet to recover. The UAE has had some very progressive royal rulers who have recognized
that the oil will run out, and they shouldn't depend on oil.

So, not all of the region is filled with basketcases. Some are doing well and some have significant potential with the right political climate.

[bigverne]

[desultude]

Saudia has some interesting problems with its roaring economy, the biggest is probably unemployment.

The malls and highways, not to mention the country of Bahrain, are packed with bored and restless groups of young Saudi men with nothing to do. The death toll of men on the highways is extraordinary. In the malls only the presence of religious police tempers the harassment women experience. In Bahrain they drink and frequent prostitutes. They have nothing to do, and no real future in the economy.

Someone here noted that because women are prevented from fully participating in the economy, a lot of talent is wasted. Women are being educated in large numbers here. At the university where I teach the majority of students are women. If the workplace is completely opened to women, unemployment will be seriously exacerbated.

So who does the work here? Indians, Pakistanis, Bangladeshis and other middle Easterners who exist here as indentured servants. Very few of them have families with them, so the gender imbalance is greatly increased. Something like a third of the adult population of the Kingdom is foriegn, and most of that is male.

It is amazing to witness. As difficult as it can be to live here, the place seldom fails to fascinate. But, as I said before, what I have mostly learned is that most of my previous ideas and beliefs about the region were seriously wrong. Rather humbling for someone as opinionated as myself.

[Gopher]

[Big_Bird]

[desultude]

I'm sitting at home with a toothache and good drugs today, so I will only give you a couple of examples.

I would have been the first to argue that women need to have full rights here as soon as possible. Now that I know the circumstances, that view has got to be tempered by what the results would be.

First, as an American I view the right to drive as second only to the right to breath air. This is the only country in the world where women are not allowed to drive. But the death rate here by auto accidents is the highest in the world. Given that world-wide 1/3 of auto accidents are caused by alcohol, and there is no alcohol here, you can get an idea of how bad the driving is. Add to that mess the half of the adult population that is female and totally inexperienced in driving- well, you get the idea. This problem is confounded by the fact that a good percentage of women choose to cover- everything, including their full faces, and that women are forbidden to interact with men who are not family (and all police are men). So, like everything else here, the resolution of the problem only creates even bigger problems.

Considering how perverse the effects of years of separation of the sexes are on the culture, it is difficult to see how to reintegrate society. The men are just plain starved for women- simply the company of women. But they have not an idea of how to deal with women. And the same can be said for the women. Men are from Mars here, and women from Venus, but they have not yet left those planets to encounter each other. Opening this society will have to be slow and cautious.

It seems that every issue that you look at here has the same sort of contingent problems.

The king actually has some desire to modernize a lot of things, but there is the problem of the religious police and the conservatives. He may be the king, but the family rules with the consent of the religious conservatives. Reform is easier conceived of than implemented.

Living here for a while can cause a sensitive person to become sympathetic to the problems of the Shiaas- usually my best students, by the way. They are a much put upon minority here who struggle financially and politically. The Shiaas I know are also critical of the hypocrisy of the Sunni majority- who flood across the causeway to Bahrain on the weekend to do all of the things that are forbidden here in the Kingdom.

A lot, perhaps the majority, of people here favor serious reforms. But those favored reforms might surprise you. Last Sunday there was an article in the N.Y. Times magazine about Sharia law. It argued that Sharia law is a lot more complex and progressive than it appears, at least historically. It provided a rule of law that was universally applied- controlling sheiks and kings as well as women. I have heard many times here that the one reform many people want is a universally applied and enforced rule of law. Absent such a enforced code, it seems that everything here turns on baksheesh (bribes) and wasta (influence) (I am sure those are misspelled). Any rule of law will look good to the average person who has little wasta and cannot afford baksheesh.

I am no proponent of Sharia law as it is applied today. Friday afternoon public executions outside the mosques after prayers is not my idea of family entertainment. The young Shiaa woman sentenced recently to jail and lashes for being raped (a sentence repealed by the king only after international outrage) was sentenced under Sharia law. But the desire for a rule of law makes the strength of the appeal of Sharia understandable.

So, the simple answer to how my views have changed is that they, by necessity, have become more nuanced and less simplistic. This place is a fascinating mess.

And, by the way, some of my opinions have been strongly confirmed- the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan appear more insane than ever seen from this end of the world. Here you can see more clearly the scars left by western colonialism and hubris. And the good guys and bad guys are impossible to sort out.

I hope this hasn't bored you to sleep, but maybe it answers the question a bit.

[cangel]

A bit of a tangent...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h67yKinUgXs

[Gopher]

Impressive, Desultude. And by God, you sound like a realist.

[The Bobster]

[desultude]

[Gopher]

First, I intended it as a sincere compliment. If you see me as a right-winger, however, then that should suggest to you just how far to the left you stand.

In any case, what suggested the change from idealist to realist? First, your own description of how you changed. Second, see the below excerpts, for example (even though the entire tone of your post is realistic and its totality beats any excerpt)...

[Big_Bird]

[Big_Bird]