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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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 Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 3:46 am Post subject: |
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| laogaiguk wrote: |
| beast wrote: |
| If a union for teachers is so important or is easy to set up, it would have been done ten years ago. This new attempt will fail just like all attempts in the past. So why bothering arguing about it? |
Good thing people argued about women's rights and brought it to court. Or abortion rights, or democracy, etc etc. This is the stupidest post I have seen in awhile. |
For your information the people arguing about women's rights, abortion rights and democracy were CITIZENS of the country. They weren't a group of foreigners from other countries who made up something like what... .01 percent of the population?
Makes kind of a difference when you can't just be deported for causing trouble. |
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wylies99
Joined: 13 May 2006
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 3:50 am Post subject: |
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| Forming an association is a great idea. It's about time. |
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birdfool
Joined: 06 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:53 am Post subject: Re: Just Say �No� |
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| ardis wrote: |
| garykasparov wrote: |
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/opinon/opi_view.asp?newsIdx=21064&categoryCode=162
This omission is that they forget how immigrants were and are treated in their own land and instead of pursuing their goals with arrogance and vindictiveness, they should be humbled and learn a lesson they need to take back to their own countries. The NET here only gets a taste of what it was like for people of different races or ideas experienced when they first landed and lived in the west.
Before trying to change this country, take your lessons and return to your own country and improve the treatment of all people first. When you do that then you may have the right to try and change Korea. Until that happens, this association means nothing and is nothing but hypocritical at best.
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I have to say that I heavily agree with this part. When was the last time a lot of the b*tchers and moaners here actually joined organizations in their home countries geared towards bringing more information about the problems their countries' immigrants face? Most of us have probably never been a minority or an immigrant (and I'm not talking about moving from like...Canada to the US). I do think it's insanely hypocritical that people come here and freak out, like all of Korea is out to get them, when they don't understand that their own governments and peoples have been doing this for centuries.
I do think he's waaaay to into pointing fingers in the article, overall, though. |
While I agree, immigrants in the States, where I'm from face all kinds of difficulties; I think that yes of course this (foreigners in Korea) is different. All situations being different anyway.
When I ride the subway in NY, I am, many times in my car, a minority. That is, being a basically white English as a first language type. There are people from all over the damn world. And, truth be told, not a hella lot of these immigrants spend as much time bitching about America as the leisure time leftist (i'm a liberal..) and rest of the world. Many people are pretty grateful to be there, even despite news coverage of cases like the Diallo on in NY. I mean, something strange is going on that bitching about Korea is so flippin' widespread. It's not productive or useful, I guess unless it's channeled into something like an organization to protect rights, but it's almost universal among foreigners (maybe not?).
My grandparents came to America in the 1940's with pretty much zilch (they were peasants to begin with), settled into a little apartment, worked pretty hard, saved, and opened a business. Learned a little English, enough to get around. I'd have hardly called my Grandfather fluent, Grandma was better but likely because it was in her nature to want to talk to everybody. When they had to deal with immigration officials and such (Grandpa was actually not a citizen for many years after arrival) they said there were usually translators on staff or someone from the neighborhood would come with them, and people were pretty nice and clear about what was required. They were pretty well embraced by the neighborhood. Their feeling was that immigrants made a contribution to the country and were offered a fair deal.
I know that many immigrants have a pretty horrid time of it in the States, migrant workers and the meat packing industry. I think these people should be given legal status. I also recognize that American companies do some pretty awful things overseas, labor where it's cheap eh... Teachers, however, are a different sort of immigrant. We are not here for labor. We aren't from countries so poor every penny counts. Maybe you were broke at home, but your town had running water... We are an interesting breed of first world migrants. I don't know what to compare it to really. Ideas?
Have I suffered absurdist treatment at the hands of my Korean employers? No, can't say particularly I have. But, then yeah, I've been asked to work extra for nothing (i say no or ask for additional funds), and been routinely lied to about what I would be doing or conditions. And I have come to accept this dishonesty as a given. Which occaisionally depresses me.
Do I think that absurdist treatment has befallen other people? Yes. I know it. I've seen it. On more occaisions than I should.
Why shouldn't we say no more? Or ask for some protections? Or at least find a healthier outlet working towards changes, instead of succumbing to some western variety of Korean rage? |
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birdfool
Joined: 06 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 4:59 am Post subject: |
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the other thing that i would like to say is that in the US, not only do immigrants organize and fight for their own rights on the grassroots level, very often citizens organize alongside them. and what government in it's right mind would grant rights to someone who didn't demand them...?
just further reading, not too long, for the hey of it~
http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=time_for_a_more_radical_immigrantrights_movement |
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tomato
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: I get so little foreign language experience, I must be in Koreatown, Los Angeles.
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:16 am Post subject: |
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Do you suppose the protest in Tibet will put a damper on the Beijing Olympics?
I sure hope so! |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:33 am Post subject: |
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| bellum99 wrote: |
This is his email back to me today:
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blah blah blah
Dr. David T. |
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Did he get his PhD out of a Crackerjack box? |
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crusher_of_heads
Joined: 23 Feb 2007
Location: kimbop and kimchi for kimberly!!!!
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:35 am Post subject: |
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| tomato wrote: |
Do you suppose the protest in Tibet will put a damper on the Beijing Olympics?
I sure hope so! |
I remember way back in 1989 how surprised and disappointed that China had favored trade nation status after The Event that Never happened.
I hope so, but don't think so. |
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kiwiana
Joined: 29 Nov 2007
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 6:46 am Post subject: |
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Dear Mr. David Thiessen, (I�m sure you frequent this blog)
According to statistics, the foreign population in Korea makes up over one million people (2% of the total population). This is growing�
David Thiessen, your argument here might be that it�s only a small group of foreigners on �E� visas (just under 20,000 residents) that are complaining. Let�s be honest, the problems faced by foreign teachers in this country represent the prejudice faced by all foreigners in Korea whether English teacher/ migrant worker fighting for basic labor rights, businessman trying to get a credit, or foreign spouse deserving of basic respect. Here�s a link to one of many examples,
http://joongangdaily.joins.com/article/view.asp?aid=2880037
The United Nations Committee on the Elimination of Racial Discrimination issued a report on August 18th, 2007, concerned that Korea has shown persistent widespread societal discrimination against foreigners. Here�s the link,
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/opinon/2007/08/202_8109.html
Korean government agencies are well aware such racism and lack of support for foreigners in this country:
�Dr. Song Tae-soo at the Korea Labor Education Institute (KLEI) in Gwangju, Gyeonggi Province, told The Korea Times that when it comes to infrastructure for ethnic minority groups, the country still has a long way to go�
http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/nation_view.asp?newsIdx=19484&categoryCode=240
Mr. Thiessen. Your argument about going back home to my own country and trying to change things there first doesn�t fly with me. Like many others, I have worked hard in Korea, made a life for myself here, and believe that I am as much a part of Korea as anyone else (�pure-blood� or not). You also stated that it�s wrong for foreigners to dictate to another country what they should or shouldn�t do. BUT, as bellum99 mentioned,
WE ONLY EXPECT THEM [local institute employers] TO ADHERE TO THEIR OWN LAWS.
Quite simply, that�s it�Nothing more. I�m sure you are well aware of the laws in Korea. I am.
ATEK can provide valuable support and information (including potential referrals to relevant Korean government agencies). ATEK is NOT legally powerless in that it can provide foreigners with an accurate understanding of their rights, moral support, and avenues for them to pursue legal matters on their own accord. ATEK, The United Nations, and the Korean government all agree that foreigners in South Korea are in need of more support. I find it unsettling that you don�t understand this. |
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Pa Jan Jo A Hamnida
Joined: 27 Oct 2006
Location: Not Korea
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| Posted: Sun Mar 23, 2008 8:55 am Post subject: |
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It won't last unless you are a pretty boy. 
| busanwolf7 wrote: |
No offense intended to any particular individual  I have a pretty sweet situation here in Korea, and have no probs with my hogwan. Maybe I'm being selfish, cuz I hear alot of complaints (not here) out there in the Korean hinterland, and maybe I'm thinking---Why rock the boat until it sinks?
Cheers |
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Snowkr
Joined: 03 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:03 am Post subject: |
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deleted.
Last edited by Snowkr on Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:38 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Scarlet13
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Changwon
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:14 am Post subject: |
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What do you have against caps?? I'm not picky about these things usually but really...and you have a PHD?
If you weren't able to present the information properly in only 700 words maybe you should have left the task to a writer of greater skill. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:19 am Post subject: Re: don't know, don't care... but.. |
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My comments below are directed towards the supposed doctor, not towards Snowkr.
| Snowkr wrote: |
| I have NO IDEA what this thread is about. I haven't read it and don't care to. |
A friend? Yeah, right. Search this board to see my take on sock puppeting.
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| #2. central cali has made several 'comments' (actually lies) about my qualifications and other remarks made by me and i am here to say just that. he misrepresents what i say and do delving into character assassination as twists what i have said into what he wants me to have said. |
Liar.
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here are two examples:
"Nope. No fog at all there. Not only that, but the schools he claims to have received his degrees from don't offer them in the majors he claimed."
"I didn't do a thing to him other than prove he is a liar and a bigot. His favorite two targets for his bigotry are Americans and Mormons"
for the former he claims to have seen a 'resume' i have posted but if he has seen such an item, he has gotten ahold of it illegally and without permission from me plus anything that leaves my hand i do not vouch for its accuracy since many will edit as they see fit. |
Oh, you lying sack of dung! I did not get ahold of it illegally. YOU gave it to a recruiter and/or posted it yourself on a job hunting site. It's quite easy to find. Do a web search for your name. I seriously doubt that using the Google search engine has been outlawed.
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| he has never produced this 'resume' for inspection thus his accusations are false. he also does not know me so he cannot make the claims he does. my qualifications have been examined and accepted by the korean government, no one has the right to say a word about my qualifications. |
More dung from you. The Korean government has shown how competent it is in examining credentials. Maybe you recall that little fiasco with the Art prof?
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| for the latter, he calls me a liar and a bigot BUT in our discussions on the other website he refused to present any evidence to back up his claims and refute the evidence another poster and i brought to the board. |
You and your liar pal there did get responses from me, with support of my assertions, when your questions were pertinent to the matter under discussion. When the matter under discussion happened to be my faith, your response, as well as that from your liar pal, was to either assert that members of my church don't know its teachings or that we refuse to tell the world its real teachings. Real WONJCT stuff from you two.
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| we gave links, sources and other credible routes of verification but what he did was turn coward and hid. |
Liar. You two provided non-credible cites and attacked those who told you that.
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| he refused to defend his beliefs |
I am not required to defend my religious beliefs to you, liar.
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| and expects everyone to take his word for it without evidence or proof. |
Liar. Your mind-reading skills are non-existent. You can not know what my expectations are.
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| you can find that interaction at koreabrdge forums in the religious discussion section under the title--- mormonism: the debate continues. |
That's only one portion of the site where your insanity, dishonesty, and just plain trolling appears. Those interested in seeing how whacked out you are, as if they didn't already know from your ridiculous "articles," can easily read the rest of your posts there. Unlike Capt Porridge's forums, you can not delete an entire forum because you were caught out.
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| #3 finally, when one writes an article for the newspaper one is given a limited amount of space. in this case only 700 words. one cannot present an argument on such a topic as i addressed in such a small amount of words. |
You've made that assertion a number of times as though it alleviates you of any responsibility for your words in print. If you had refused to write another "article" for the KT and had also addressed whatever editorializing they did that changed the meaning of what you submitted, then you would have a case. But you haven't and you don't. In addition, in the comments section on the KT for each of your "articles," you defend your statements.
You also begin, when posting under the moniker archaeologist there, by pretending that you are not said poster. That is, until you get caught out by others or slip up and forget that you were trying to keep it a secret.
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| i have written a second one which will address some areas more fully andhave submitted it to KT but we shall see if it is printed or not. I do doisagree withthis 'association' BECAUSE it was started with the wrong attitude, the wrong motives, the wrong purpose and the wrong reasons and this is addressed in my 2nd article as well. |
What wrong attitude did they have? Their stated attitude is to inform native English teachers of their legal rights.
What wrong motive? Their stated motive is to provide a source of information for native English teachers.
What wrong purpose? Their stated purpose is to assist native English teachers with information.
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| the koreans have the system right. |
Oh, they do, do they now? Do you think the part of the system where the hagweon association in one town posted false statements about foreigners and the law was right? What about the part of the system where the hagweon owner fires the employee in the 10th month? Or where the hagweon owner deducts full tax, pension, and health from the foreigner's pay but pockets it? If you don't realize that all of those are against Korean law, then you really are living in a fantasy world.
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| by requiring the minimum of a BA n any discipline allows for the NEt to add qualifications if they want to and this flexibility is the systems strength not its weakness. also the inflexible visa and reease letter are two great safeguards for the schools, hagwons and most importantly, the students. |
The letter of release violates one of the provisions of the Korean Constitution. Or perhaps you don't care about Korean law? Oh, that's right, you don't!
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| such safeguards make the NEt think twice before doing something stupid and none of these three requirements should or need to be removed. |
"Something stupid?" You are whacked out! It's not stupid to ask your employer to follow his own country's laws.
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thankyou for letting this poster help me set the record partially straight and if you want to talk further onthis, my email is at the bottom of the article in the Korea Times.
sincerely,
Dr. D.T." |
1. I hope the poster gets banned for sock puppeting.
2. A couple of people whose e-mails you responded to were kind enough to inform me of the contents of your response. Of course, you're just going to lie and say that it's out of your hands so you can't be held responsible for the contents.
3. You are a liar, and what's worse, an incompetent one.
4. I suggested this on the KB forum and I think it's still a good suggestion: take advantage of that nifty NHI you're supposed to be enrolled in here and go get some psychiatric/psychological help. You're in serious need of it.
Last edited by CentralCali on Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:52 am; edited 1 time in total |
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bellum99
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: don't need to know
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 3:07 pm Post subject: |
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To CentralCali,
You cannot argue with drunks, crazy people and fanatics. The writer of the article is probably all three. Many people, including myself, have attempted to discuss the writer's false claims and beliefs and he defends them with insanity. There is no purpose in this. There are always people who will ,through a lack of intelligence, education, or a moral deficiency, choose to believe anything. This writer is not a writer and is in fact a pitiable and pathetic person.
Note: David T
( We may work for Koreans and live in Korea but that doesn't replace the people we are. We don't have to start worshipping them, too. I have seen nothing in Korea, or the Koreans, to suggest that they as a people are better than any other people. Just do your job, get your money and go back home. You cannot become a Korean and you should not want to.) |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| bellum99 wrote: |
To CentralCali,
You cannot argue with drunks, crazy people and fanatics. The writer of the article is probably all three. Many people, including myself, have attempted to discuss the writer's false claims and beliefs and he defends them with insanity. There is no purpose in this. There are always people who will ,through a lack of intelligence, education, or a moral deficiency, choose to believe anything. This writer is not a writer and is in fact a pitiable and pathetic person. |
I know you're right. There is hope, though, that my response above to the messenger will enlighten others as to what the purported doctor spews.
{This portion deleted by CentralCali because Snowkr and I came to an agreement.}
Thiessen is incredibly sensitive to any descriptions of his qualifications or behavior whatsoever, yet he rails loudly and often about those of other people. His targets have done nothing untoward. The man is a hypocrite. He's also a danger. His published rantings cannot be a postive thing for the image of NETs here.
By the way, that bit of his above about not wanting to provide personal data as the reason he doesn't post on this forum is pathetic. He posts in the remarks section of the Korea Times. For that, the KT requires foreigners to provide their national ID number. For us Americans, that would be our SSAN. I don't know, and really don't care all that much, what it is for Canadians. That's certainly more sensitive information than that required to join this forum.
I am interested, though, in how finding this resume via an online search engine is illegal.
Last edited by CentralCali on Tue Apr 01, 2008 5:50 am; edited 3 times in total |
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bellum99
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: don't need to know
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| Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:53 pm Post subject: |
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| hahaha. It is funny that you actually found his resume and photo. Yup...looks pretty criminal to me. "Doctor" T should have them throw the book(bible) at you. I can't believe I bothered to argue with a Theology major...talk about a waste of time. No one is more closed minded than someone who studied God in University. |
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