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regicide
Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Location: United States
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 Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:28 am Post subject: Good or commodity |
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Is there any problem with using good in a singular form? The word came up in a sentence referring to a singular item - - " A computer is an electronic goods." I thought it should be good but we couldn't find the word used in this form - - only goods but that seemed to always be in the plural form or a collective noun situation.
Thanks for your help. |
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spliff
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:30 am Post subject: |
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| It should read "Computers are American goods". |
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regicide
Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Location: United States
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:32 am Post subject: |
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| spliff wrote: |
| It should read "Computers are American goods". |
Right. You would need to change the subject to the plural form to match goods.
But could you say a computer is an American good? |
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spliff
Joined: 19 Jan 2004
Location: Khon Kaen, Thailand
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:36 am Post subject: |
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| "A computor is an American product (or commodity). Your sentence sounds awkward and I'd never consider writing it that way. Probably Konglish. |
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R. S. Refugee
Joined: 29 Sep 2004
Location: Shangra La, ROK
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:41 am Post subject: |
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| But, if even we native speakers have to debate it so assiduously, just how important can such a finer point of English grammar be to a non-native speaker, n'est-ce pas? |
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regicide
Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Location: United States
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:53 am Post subject: |
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| R. S. Refugee wrote: |
| But, if even we native speakers have to debate it so assiduously, just how important can such a finer point of English grammar be to a non-native speaker, n'est-ce pas? |
" A computer is an electronic goods." is how is it is written in Be Smart. |
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bogey666
Joined: 17 Mar 2008
Location: Korea, the ass free zone
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:13 am Post subject: |
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| regicide wrote: |
| R. S. Refugee wrote: |
| But, if even we native speakers have to debate it so assiduously, just how important can such a finer point of English grammar be to a non-native speaker, n'est-ce pas? |
" A computer is an electronic goods." is how is it is written in Be Smart. |
very clumsily written and though I am not an English major, I'd bet that is gramatically incorrect.
computer is singular while goods are plural.
American English is quite consistent with staying singular to singular, it's British English that can get confusing. (e.g. they will use plural with a singular word that implies many like a team, whereas American English is consistent)
if you insist on using that sentence then say
a computer is an example/one of many electronic goods available at the store.
etc etc etc
I suppose you COULD say a computer is an American good, but I've almost never heard of goods being used in a singular manner either in spoken or business English, much less everyday usage. |
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regicide
Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Location: United States
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| bogey666 wrote: |
| regicide wrote: |
| R. S. Refugee wrote: |
| But, if even we native speakers have to debate it so assiduously, just how important can such a finer point of English grammar be to a non-native speaker, n'est-ce pas? |
" A computer is an electronic goods." is how is it is written in Be Smart. |
very clumsily written and though I am not an English major, I'd bet that is gramatically incorrect.
computer is singular while goods are plural.
American English is quite consistent with staying singular to singular, it's British English that can get confusing. (e.g. they will use plural with a singular word that implies many like a team, whereas American English is consistent)
if you insist on using that sentence then say
a computer is an example/one of many electronic goods available at the store.
etc etc etc
I suppose you COULD say a computer is an American good, but I've almost never heard of goods being used in a singular manner either in spoken or business English, much less everyday usage. |
Thanks for your help. That is the conclusion we agreed on - - that computer is singular while goods is plural and we decided to change goods to item to make the sentence work.
But I did find in Wikipedia if that means anything, that a good or commodity in economics is any object or service that increases utility, ...
The point is there is a singular form of the word.
The discussion at work started out by the way that the sentence was correct as it was written and the "dictionaries proved it�. I said it is not right but couldn't find any examples to back that up. I said it is an s form so it is plural and the subject is singular.
I said: How can that be right?
What bugs me is the local staff, or at least one of them, had to be right.
And what I said meant nothing. |
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bogey666
Joined: 17 Mar 2008
Location: Korea, the ass free zone
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| regicide wrote: |
| bogey666 wrote: |
| regicide wrote: |
| R. S. Refugee wrote: |
| But, if even we native speakers have to debate it so assiduously, just how important can such a finer point of English grammar be to a non-native speaker, n'est-ce pas? |
" A computer is an electronic goods." is how is it is written in Be Smart. |
very clumsily written and though I am not an English major, I'd bet that is gramatically incorrect.
computer is singular while goods are plural.
American English is quite consistent with staying singular to singular, it's British English that can get confusing. (e.g. they will use plural with a singular word that implies many like a team, whereas American English is consistent)
if you insist on using that sentence then say
a computer is an example/one of many electronic goods available at the store.
etc etc etc
I suppose you COULD say a computer is an American good, but I've almost never heard of goods being used in a singular manner either in spoken or business English, much less everyday usage. |
Thanks for your help. That is the conclusion we agreed on - - that computer is singular while goods is plural and we decided to change goods to item to make the sentence work.
But I did find in Wikipedia if that means anything, that a good or commodity in economics is any object or service that increases utility, ...
The point is there is a singular form of the word.
The discussion at work started out by the way that the sentence was correct as it was written and the "dictionaries proved it�. I said it is not right but couldn't find any examples to back that up. I said it is an s form so it is plural and the subject is singular.
I said: How can that be right?
What bugs me is the local staff, or at least one of them, had to be right.
And what I said meant nothing. |
haha can't help you on Korean faith in books.
but you were clearly correct.
and returning to good/goods, yes you can surely say it's an American good, but it's a good bet that word will disappear from usage in short order.
it's a great example of rustic, outdated usage that was maybe used by your grandparents and no one uses it anymore.
in everyday and business English, it's been replaced by the word "product/s" a long time ago. Now you may find it only in someone's Economics Doctorate thesis or in an Economics book (in fact, that's probably the last/only place I've seen that word used)
it's being able to point this out and explaining more functional usage, that's what makes having native/foreign speakers valuable, no?
otherwise you'd have a Korean who's mastered the language walk into an American store and say something like "how much for this good?"
and everyone will look at him/her like they're crazy. |
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bogey666
Joined: 17 Mar 2008
Location: Korea, the ass free zone
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| bogey666 wrote: |
| regicide wrote: |
| bogey666 wrote: |
| regicide wrote: |
| R. S. Refugee wrote: |
| But, if even we native speakers have to debate it so assiduously, just how important can such a finer point of English grammar be to a non-native speaker, n'est-ce pas? |
" A computer is an electronic goods." is how is it is written in Be Smart. |
very clumsily written and though I am not an English major, I'd bet that is gramatically incorrect.
computer is singular while goods are plural.
American English is quite consistent with staying singular to singular, it's British English that can get confusing. (e.g. they will use plural with a singular word that implies many like a team, whereas American English is consistent)
if you insist on using that sentence then say
a computer is an example/one of many electronic goods available at the store.
etc etc etc
I suppose you COULD say a computer is an American good, but I've almost never heard of goods being used in a singular manner either in spoken or business English, much less everyday usage. |
Thanks for your help. That is the conclusion we agreed on - - that computer is singular while goods is plural and we decided to change goods to item to make the sentence work.
But I did find in Wikipedia if that means anything, that a good or commodity in economics is any object or service that increases utility, ...
The point is there is a singular form of the word.
The discussion at work started out by the way that the sentence was correct as it was written and the "dictionaries proved it�. I said it is not right but couldn't find any examples to back that up. I said it is an s form so it is plural and the subject is singular.
I said: How can that be right?
What bugs me is the local staff, or at least one of them, had to be right.
And what I said meant nothing. |
haha can't help you on Korean faith in books.
but you were clearly correct.
and returning to good/goods, yes you can surely say it's an American good, but it's a good bet that word will disappear from usage in short order.
it's a great example of rustic, outdated usage that was maybe used by your grandparents and no one uses it anymore.
in everyday and business English, it's been replaced by the word "product/s" a long time ago. Now you may find it only in someone's Economics Doctorate thesis or in an Economics book (in fact, that's probably the last/only place I've seen that word used, it's only used in "econo-speak" for e.g. constant references to "goods and services".
it's being able to point this out and explaining more functional usage, that's what makes having native/foreign speakers valuable, no?
otherwise you'd have a Korean who's mastered the language walk into an American store and say something like "how much for this good?"
and everyone will look at him/her like they're crazy. |
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regicide
Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Location: United States
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| Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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| bogey666 wrote: |
| regicide wrote: |
| R. S. Refugee wrote: |
| But, if even we native speakers have to debate it so assiduously, just how important can such a finer point of English grammar be to a non-native speaker, n'est-ce pas? |
" A computer is an electronic goods." is how is it is written in Be Smart. |
very clumsily written and though I am not an English major, I'd bet that is gramatically incorrect.
computer is singular while goods are plural.
American English is quite consistent with staying singular to singular, it's British English that can get confusing. (e.g. they will use plural with a singular word that implies many like a team, whereas American English is consistent)
if you insist on using that sentence then say
a computer is an example/one of many electronic goods available at the store.
etc etc etc
I suppose you COULD say a computer is an American good, but I've almost never heard of goods being used in a singular manner either in spoken or business English, much less everyday usage. |
Thanks for your reply.
I have printed parts of your response and have already shown them to my co-workers. |
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LostinKSpace
Joined: 17 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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American English is quite consistent with staying singular to singular, it's British English that can get confusing. (e.g. they will use plural with a singular word that implies many like a team, whereas American English is consistent)
I'm a little confused by this statement, as I'm pretty sure that American English uses phrases such as 'a team', or 'a unit' (which could consist of many items, people). In the example that was mentioned the word team is still singular, it is a countable noun, I'm interested to know how American English would express this differently.. |
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poet13
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Location: Just over there....throwing lemons.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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Hmm....I was thinking it should be good, singular, but then I thought of this....
Little Johnny dope runner brings a package of 'clear' for his boss B. Bonds. Inside the package is one bottle of liquid. Liquid, being an uncountable noun, would be singular. However, Mr Bonds, in the midst of a head expanding 'roid rage, screams, "DID I FECKING STUTTER??? GIVE ME THE GOODS!!!", referring to a singular liquid in the plural.
So now I'm not sure what it should be. |
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regicide
Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Location: United States
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| poet13 wrote: |
Hmm....I was thinking it should be good, singular, but then I thought of this....
Little Johnny dope runner brings a package of 'clear' for his boss B. Bonds. Inside the package is one bottle of liquid. Liquid, being an uncountable noun, would be singular. However, Mr Bonds, in the midst of a head expanding 'roid rage, screams, "DID I FECKING STUTTER??? GIVE ME THE GOODS!!!", referring to a singular liquid in the plural.
So now I'm not sure what it should be. |
Wouldn't that be more of an example of slang? |
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poet13
Joined: 22 Jan 2006
Location: Just over there....throwing lemons.
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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True...  |
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