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Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
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 Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:44 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by Pyongshin Sangja on Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:54 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 1:46 am Post subject: |
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| a severe pounding from, netizens |
The only pounding going on here was Roh Moo-Hyun's right-hand man pounding the nureungji out of Shin Jeong-Ah.
What about the fact that the investigation into the board of Dongguk University also uncovered fraud by one of their director's, the Venerable Ji Kwang, who falsely claimed to have graduated from SNU:
http://www.mgoon.com/view.htm?id=927765
What about the payments of millions of dollars from the Roh administration to Buddhist temples?
What about the fact that Korea is drowning in allegations of fraud and is trying to blame Yale when they were either a) too provincial and lazy to even bother checking the degree of someone they were about to appoint to a Professorhip or b) were actually paid off through the above payments to Buddhist temples to appoint someone with a degree they knew was false, but hey, she was banging Roh Moo Hyun's National Security advisor?
What about that?
If the President of Dongguk Univ. had a monk with a fake degree on his board, he looks suspect when it comes to Shin Jeong Ah.
You kyopos are so cute when you pretend that Korea has morals. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 3:10 am Post subject: |
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| So yes, I am judging why Koreans are wrong, whatever the details. |
For me, this sums up the thread pretty well. No matter what the facts are, Koreans are wrong.  |
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Suwoner10
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
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| So yes, I am judging why Koreans are wrong, whatever the details. |
For me, this sums up the thread pretty well. No matter what the facts are, Koreans are wrong. |
What I mean by that is that eventually, the details will show that Yale is right, and Dongguk is wrong. It already has. THEY HIRED HER BEFORE EVER CONTACTING YALE. And no one is bringing up the fact that a person by her same name did go to and graduate from Yale, hence the "administrative mistake" which is likely not even a mistake, but rather more likely this Shin trying to pass off as the real "Shin" that actually went to Yale. Mark this thread, I guarantee plenty more will come out of this. |
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Suwoner10
Joined: 10 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 9:37 am Post subject: |
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http://www.yaledailynews.com/articles/view/24050
From the School Paper...
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Facing Dongguk lawsuit, Yale vows to hold ground
The University vowed Wednesday to fight a federal lawsuit filed this week by Dongguk University over Yale�s role in the Shingate scandal � which the Korean university asserts could have been averted in the first place if not for the recklessness of administrators here.
In a complaint filed Monday, Dongguk University claims that it was �publicly humiliated and deeply shamed in the eyes of the Korean population� because University officials wrongly confirmed the authenticity of a Yale degree fabricated by an art-history professor at the Korean school, and then, when the fake degree was uncovered, mistakenly asserted that Dongguk University had never tried to verify its authenticity in the first place. Dongguk contends that its fundraising has declined as a result of Shingate, as did the number of applications to the university and its allocation of government grants.
Yale has apologized repeatedly for its error in confirming that Shin Jeong-ah, who is now on trial in Korea for forgery, actually attended the Graduate School of Arts and Sciences. But Dongguk officials remain unsatisfied: To compensate, the university is demanding the Connecticut District Court award it no less than $50 million in damages from Yale.
�In Asia, face is everything,� said Ira Grudberg �57 LAW �60, a New Haven attorney who is representing Dongguk in the case. �Dongguk was excoriated by the Korean press for this. They feel it has been an immense blow to their standing in the community and their reputation.�
But the University called the lawsuit �without merit� and promised to fight it in court.
�Yale regrets that Dongguk University has filed suit against a fellow institution of higher learning regarding the fraudulent actions of Shin Jeong-ah, who was hired before an inquiry about her credentials was made to Yale,� University Spokesman Tom Conroy wrote in an e-mail.
Over the course of 30 angst-ridden pages, the suit provides an unprecedented window into the behind-the-scenes confusion both at Dongguk and Yale as the two universities grappled with the scandal � and dealt with its consequences.
The turmoil began in 2005, when Dongguk decided to expand its art-history department � and recruited Shin, then the curator of a Korean art museum.
Shin was hired Sept. 1, 2005, but officials at Dongguk quickly received information that �raised questions� about the validity of her Yale degree, as the lawsuit puts it. On Sept. 5, an administrator at Dongguk sent a registered letter to Graduate School Associate Dean Pamela Schirmeister, requesting she verify the authenticity of an ostensibly Yale-authored letter that Shin had presented to Dongguk during the hiring process as a certification of her degree.
That letter was signed �Pamela Schirmeistr� [sic] and, University officials now assert, had been forged by Shin. Yet on Sept. 22, Schirmeister replied to Dongguk by fax, writing: �As requested I am confirming that the attached letter was issued by the Yale Graduate School and signed by me.�
That satisfied Dongguk officials, who �concluded that Shin had received a Ph.D. from Yale University as she had represented,� according to the lawsuit.
Until last summer, that is. In June, rumors began to swell about Shin after a member of the board of directors at the university raised doubts about her credentials. On June 11, Dongguk officials asked a Yale registrar a question they thought they had learned the answer to back in 2005.
In an e-mail message, they asked: Did Shin receive a Yale degree? The reply came as a shock: No, she did not.
Within weeks, the scandal exploded into one of Korea�s largest in recent memory, and Dongguk came under fire as Korean newspapers raised questions about whether Dongguk was negligent, or even complicit, in hiring Shin despite her faked credentials. Officials at the university pointed to the 2005 fax from Schirmeister as proof that they did indeed do their due diligence.
But it did little good, the lawsuit contends, because in press statements over the summer, Yale officials asserted the fax was a fabrication, and that Yale had sent no such confirmation.
�Yale University knew or should have known that if it did not provide truthful, accurate and complete information regarding its communications with Dongguk University about Shin, that Dongguk University would be vilified in the Korean media, that its reputation would be significantly tarnished and that it would suffer severe consequences,� the suit declares.
�Instead of acknowledging that the � fax was authentic, Yale University embarked on a campaign designed to distance itself from any responsibility regarding Shin,� it continued, �[and] made a series of knowingly false statements.�
Schirmeister was away this week and unavailable for comment, and she has previously declined to speak on the matter.
She was not Dongguk�s only target: Over several pages, the lawsuit also assails University spokeswoman Gila Reinstein, who handled press inquiries on the Shin scandal and, for months, asserted to the Korean press � and to the News � that the fax transmission was a forgery and that Dongguk had never contacted the University in 2005 in the first place.
But Dongguk officials kept pressing the University to investigate further, and in November, responding to a subpoena from Korean attorneys handling Shin�s prosecution, the University realized it was wrong: Dongguk had indeed contacted Yale, and Schirmeister really did reply with that fax � although only because of an �administrative error� in the rush of business.
At that, officials at Dongguk � whose president and board of trustees had all been called upon to resign in the wake of the scandal � were outraged, the lawsuit makes clear.
�Your inaccurate information,� a Dongguk official is quoted writing to Yale in December, �has ruined our one hundred year-long built reputation.�
The next day, Dec. 29, Yale officials issued a statement admitting to the error and expressing their regrets, and University President Richard Levin subsequently apologized to the university. But Yale�s remorse, the suit contends, �did not undo the damage suffered by Dongguk,� which was �publicly humiliated and deeply shamed in the eyes of the Korean population.�
And in an interview with the Korea Times last month, Dongguk President Oh Young-kyo vowed that his university would take legal action against Yale regarding the situation � something University officials immediately said would be �regrettable.�
But Oh followed through with his threat.
�We can make good our friendship with Yale after we settle our losses due to them,� he said at the time.
Yale officials, too, said they still were open to making peace with Dongguk � but only after the suit is successfully defeated.
�Yale hopes that, once this matter is resolved with Yale�s exoneration, Yale and Dongguk can have good will and friendship,� Conroy wrote in his e-mail Wednesday.
Yale, meanwhile, has since changed its methods for verifying Yale degrees. Officials will no longer confirm whether a person holds a Yale degree based on any external papers they are asked to confirm, but rather will consult only their own records when making such an assessment, officials said.
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So...basically Yale were asked to do DOngguk a favor--by verifying a piece of paper. Something totally outside the scope of the office's normal tasks.
Why, praytell, didn't Dongguk simply ask Yale whether she attended? Well, because the hiring person at Donguk already knew she didn't, and whoever was her inside accomplice figured that if they could get this "letter" verified, it would convince the key people at Donguk she attended. All they asked of Yale was whether this "letter" was authored at Yale. THey weren't asked to verify a degree. A letter.
The first fax is quite interesting too...you'd think someone working at Yale would spell their own name correctly, yet the fax had the name Schirmeister spelled Schirmeistr. Hmmm... |
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Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
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| Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 4:34 pm Post subject: |
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| the fact that a person by her same name did go to and graduate from Yale, |
I've never heard this before. |
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billybrobby
Joined: 09 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:15 am Post subject: |
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| Suwoner10 wrote: |
So...basically Yale were asked to do DOngguk a favor--by verifying a piece of paper. Something totally outside the scope of the office's normal tasks.
Why, praytell, didn't Dongguk simply ask Yale whether she attended? Well, because the hiring person at Donguk already knew she didn't, and whoever was her inside accomplice figured that if they could get this "letter" verified, it would convince the key people at Donguk she attended. All they asked of Yale was whether this "letter" was authored at Yale. THey weren't asked to verify a degree. A letter.
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This is a strange argument. I think it's clear that Dongguk wasn't trying to test some secretary's document verification skills. They were just trying to find out if the lady had really attended there. And Yale told them the totally wrong answer, then tried to deny that they had given the wrong answer. If they weren't up to the task of verifying that letter, they shouldn't have verified it.
You're shooting too high by trying to make Yale seem entirely innocent. They screwed up. Just as Dongguk screwed up by not verifying the degree in the first place (although it's more understandable in light of the fact that she was already a museum curator, but still a screw-up). You can agrue that Dongguk's administration is trying to shift the blame. Or that the lawsuit is an inappropriate response to Yale's blunder. (After all, it is a rather small mistake in an otherwise illustrious history of producing sharp intellectual minds like George W. Bush's.) But in the end, if no new facts come out, the blame is to be shared. |
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Julius
Joined: 27 Jul 2006
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:30 am Post subject: |
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| Suwoner10 wrote: |
| So...basically Yale were asked to do DOngguk a favor--by verifying a piece of paper. Something totally outside the scope of the office's normal tasks. |
Who then must verify a degree from Yale, if not Yale university?
Are they completely unable to ascertain who graduated from their institution and when? |
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whatever
Joined: 11 Jun 2006
Location: Korea: More fun than jail.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 1:51 am Post subject: |
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How the F can a Korean university sue Yale on U.S. soil? They have the right to do that? Somebody please explain...
If an American university tried to do the opposite, it'd be laughable. |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 2:51 am Post subject: |
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| billybrobby wrote: |
| ...as Dongguk screwed up by not verifying the degree in the first place (although it's more understandable in light of the fact that she was already a museum curator, but still a screw-up). You can agrue that Dongguk's administration is trying to shift the blame. Or that the lawsuit is an inappropriate response to Yale's blunder. |
The blunder here could also be called Dongguk's blunder for accepting something so casuallly.
How many of us would be able to get an E-2 simply by world-of-mouth or a fax? We can't. |
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endo
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Location: Seoul...my home
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:34 am Post subject: |
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I don't get it.
So did Yale send an earlier fax saying that she did graduate the University (or at least confirm that the letter was real), only to later change their story?
And is Yale now saying that this supposed fax sent by them originally confirming her graduation (or letter) was a fake make up by Dongguk officials?
If Yale did originally confirm that her graduation (letter) was real and then recanted it, then I can see where Dongguk University would be upset.
Of course Dongguk should have done their job in the first place and have not had to resort to confirming the letter.
Anyways, this lawsuit is purely about saving face and redirecting some of the blame to another actor in order to lessen the criticism against the university. |
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billybrobby
Joined: 09 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 3:59 am Post subject: |
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| bassexpander wrote: |
| billybrobby wrote: |
| ...as Dongguk screwed up by not verifying the degree in the first place (although it's more understandable in light of the fact that she was already a museum curator, but still a screw-up). You can agrue that Dongguk's administration is trying to shift the blame. Or that the lawsuit is an inappropriate response to Yale's blunder. |
The blunder here could also be called Dongguk's blunder for accepting something so casuallly.
How many of us would be able to get an E-2 simply by world-of-mouth or a fax? We can't. |
So Dongguk asks for confirmation, Yale erroneously gives it, and Dongguk is still at fault for accepting Yale's confirmation too casually? Wow, that's an interesting way to shift the blame around. I liked the tone of gleeful condemnation replete with bolded sentences that you had earlier in this thread. Too bad it was based on bad info.
I do agree that the lawsuit is mainly about taking the heat off the Dongguk administration. |
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southern boy
Joined: 29 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:30 am Post subject: |
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| I followed this story for quite a bit when it first hit the headline, if I remember correctly she was having an affair with a government official who knew fully well that she didnt graduate where she proclaimed she did but he pressurised the school (dogok) into hiring her (there were reasons behind it why the school followed so but cant remember it now). |
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Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:21 am Post subject: |
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| The reason was...money. Government donations to temples. |
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Privateer
Joined: 31 Aug 2005
Location: Easy Street.
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| Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:34 am Post subject: |
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I like this quote, from a post above:
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| Yale, meanwhile, has since changed its methods for verifying Yale degrees. Officials will no longer confirm whether a person holds a Yale degree based on any external papers they are asked to confirm, but rather will consult only their own records when making such an assessment, officials said. |
Well, duh. Consult your own records to confirm whether someone graduated, is only common sense. However, it's understandable that someone sent off a fax in a hurry without giving it proper attention (particularly if there really (?) was someone of the same name who graduated Yale); but it's inexcusable that they claimed 'for months' the fax was a forgery, shifting the blame entirely away from themselves.
I guess we'll see how good their lawyers really are. |
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