|
Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Thwartley
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
|
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 6:17 am Post subject: |
|
|
Conspiracy theorists are the most tiresome fools of this or any other age.
Some good excerpts posted by Ya-ta-boy earlier in the thread. This thread reminded me of a good article from a number of years ago regarding these sad, desperate for attention pieces of excrement.
"It's a panoply of the absurd and yet entirely of this world. Historian Dieter Groh writes that conspiracy theorists "represent a constant temptation for all of us" because they are a constant in western history. According to Groh, "the historical sequence before the French Revolution is one of Jews, heretics, witches, followed by Jews, Communists, capitalists, and secret services" after the revolutionary year of 1789.
As diverse as these theories and their adherents may be, they share a basic thought pattern: great tragedies must have great reasons. According to this way of thinking, it would be impossible for a small group of Islamists to strike such a damaging surprise blow against superpower USA, with all its weapons and intelligence services.
"The wonderful thing about a conspiracy theory is that it allows you to understand everything perfectly," says American political scientist Michael Barkun in an effort to explain the continued success of conspiracy theories. It "discloses to you that all the evil in the world can be attributed to a single cause, and that THEY are this cause, whoever they might be."
Of course, THEY - the Americans, in the case of September 11th - make things rather easy for those with a lot of imagination. That's because conspiracy theories, says Groh, only take hold when they come into contact with reality. To ensure that their "mechanism functions properly, they must fit into the prevailing interpretation patterns of a group, nation, culture or religion the way a key fits into a lock."
After all, didn't Bush and Blair deceive their fellow citizens, the United Nations, and the rest of the world with falsified or exaggerated threat scenarios to make it easier to send their soldiers to Iraq? What about Vietnam, the Iran Contra affair, and US support for Bin Laden and the Taliban when they were fighting the Soviet army in Afghanistan?"
Panoply of the Absurd |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Funkdafied

Joined: 04 Nov 2007 Location: In Da House
|
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:01 am Post subject: |
|
|
Quote: |
"Incorrect. Conspiracy theories, by definition, arise definitively from a lack of evidence."
This is just plain dumb. If there were nothing of substance to go on, a "challenge" to the disputed report would not even begin; much less continue for some time.
|
There is zero logic in your statement here. It's perfectly possible to mount a challenge to a report with nothing of substance to go on. And we can see that this is exactly what happens with conspiracy theories all the time. All we need to do to confirm this is to note that conspiracy theories never result in trials/convictions/sentences, precisely because there is no substance to them. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
regicide
Joined: 01 Sep 2006 Location: United States
|
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 1:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I am only involved with the events of the sixties where a mountain of evidence proving that they were a lie has been developed regarding those events. The only reason they have not resulted in trials is because the perpetrator of the crime; the government, has the power to stop those trials.
There may come a day where current events that are in dispute gain the same status; as proven challenges to the official report, and are accepted as facts as well.
Fact: Sirhan Sirhan was too far away, to have fired the fatal shots. He was also in front of Kennedy while RFK's entry wounds were in the front of his body.
Robert F. Kennedy�s assassination is greatly overshadowed by his brother John�s in the American consciousness.
But the inconsistencies in the official account of the RFK case are just as well-documented, damning, and thoroughly covered up. The evidence, when looked at objectively and with an open mind, points to a wider conspiracy and cover-up by forces including the U.S. government and LAPD.
Powder burns on Kennedy's clothing reveal that all three of his wounds were from a gun fired from 0 to 1-1/2 inches away. And yet, all witnesses claim that Sirhan's gun could not possibly have done this, for not one person places Sirhan's gun that close, and according to the general consensus Sirhan's gun never got closer than three feet away.
Obviously Sirhan shot at Kennedy, but it is clear someone else was firing too. And once a second assassin is established, this adds far more than just another lone individual to the murder gang (because of the way many powerful branches of government instantly swung into action to protect the second assassin). Indeed, any second assassin virtually proves that powerful branches of U.S. Government were behind the murder itself - not only because of their stiff resistance from the get go, but because of their ongoing, coldly calculated, and otherwise inexplicable manipulation of evidence for keeping Sirhan as the singular decoy/patsy.
http://www.truthmove.org/content/rfk/ |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
|
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 4:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
JFK, RFK, MLK, Jr. What other assassinations, tragedies etc. can only be properly understood by conspiracy theories? Is Bush being manipulated by space aliens? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
regicide
Joined: 01 Sep 2006 Location: United States
|
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 5:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Powder burns on Kennedy's clothing reveal that all three of his wounds were from a gun fired from 0 to 1-1/2 inches away. And yet, all witnesses claim that Sirhan's gun could not possibly have done this, for not one person places Sirhan's gun that close, and according to the general consensus Sirhan's gun never got closer than three feet away. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
igotthisguitar

Joined: 08 Apr 2003 Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
|
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 7:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
regicide wrote: |
Powder burns on Kennedy's clothing reveal that all three of his wounds were from a gun fired from 0 to 1-1/2 inches away.
And yet, all witnesses claim that Sirhan's gun could not possibly have done this, for not one person places Sirhan's gun that close,
and according to the general consensus Sirhan's gun never got closer than three feet away. |
Yes, RFK was another major cover-up.
Glaringly obvious.
Trust us  |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
bacasper

Joined: 26 Mar 2007
|
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 8:49 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
JFK, RFK, MLK, Jr. What other assassinations, tragedies etc. can only be properly understood by conspiracy theories? |
Let's not forget Malcolm.
We'd love to hear your "lone nut" or other theories. Please elaborate. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Manner of Speaking

Joined: 09 Jan 2003
|
Posted: Tue Mar 25, 2008 11:16 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Thwartley wrote: |
Conspiracy theorists are the most tiresome fools of this or any other age.
Some good excerpts posted by Ya-ta-boy earlier in the thread. This thread reminded me of a good article from a number of years ago regarding these sad, desperate for attention pieces of excrement.
"It's a panoply of the absurd and yet entirely of this world. Historian Dieter Groh writes that conspiracy theorists "represent a constant temptation for all of us" because they are a constant in western history. According to Groh, "the historical sequence before the French Revolution is one of Jews, heretics, witches, followed by Jews, Communists, capitalists, and secret services" after the revolutionary year of 1789.
As diverse as these theories and their adherents may be, they share a basic thought pattern: great tragedies must have great reasons. According to this way of thinking, it would be impossible for a small group of Islamists to strike such a damaging surprise blow against superpower USA, with all its weapons and intelligence services.
"The wonderful thing about a conspiracy theory is that it allows you to understand everything perfectly," says American political scientist Michael Barkun in an effort to explain the continued success of conspiracy theories. It "discloses to you that all the evil in the world can be attributed to a single cause, and that THEY are this cause, whoever they might be."
Of course, THEY - the Americans, in the case of September 11th - make things rather easy for those with a lot of imagination. That's because conspiracy theories, says Groh, only take hold when they come into contact with reality. To ensure that their "mechanism functions properly, they must fit into the prevailing interpretation patterns of a group, nation, culture or religion the way a key fits into a lock."
After all, didn't Bush and Blair deceive their fellow citizens, the United Nations, and the rest of the world with falsified or exaggerated threat scenarios to make it easier to send their soldiers to Iraq? What about Vietnam, the Iran Contra affair, and US support for Bin Laden and the Taliban when they were fighting the Soviet army in Afghanistan?"
Panoply of the Absurd |
An excellent quote, thank you for it.
Actually, FYI, it's a little strange that this subject is being re-hashed...it was extensively discussed several months ago:
Conspiracy Theories and Their Effect on Democracy |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
desultude

Joined: 15 Jan 2003 Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
|
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 12:22 am Post subject: |
|
|
Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
JFK, RFK, MLK, Jr. What other assassinations, tragedies etc. can only be properly understood by conspiracy theories? Is Bush being manipulated by space aliens? |
Well, that is a fresh new twist on Chaney.
My own interpretation for the salience of conspiracy theories is that the level of lies and deception which go on from the government makes any alternative seem more plausible.
Is the war in Iraq about oil? Well, it makes a lot more sense than to say that it is about spreading democracy or looking for WMDs. When the leaders make it a habit to lie, people try to fill in the blanks so that they can make sense of seemingly senseless activities.
Also, the government and the media always try to simplify reality, so reality seems as simple as any conspiracy theory. We are not encouraged to think deeply and systematically about issues and problems.
Sometimes it seems that (we) Americans cannot grasp much beyond a Dr. Seuss level of reality. When Bush starts a speech with a reference to "a story", we all reach for the cocoa and bed-time cookies, just as John Stewart does on his show. Stewart has us down cold- we are all just looking for a reassuring bed-time story. If we don't buy Bush's, then an alternative simplistic theory will do. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
regicide
Joined: 01 Sep 2006 Location: United States
|
Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 3:44 am Post subject: |
|
|
bacasper wrote: |
Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
JFK, RFK, MLK, Jr. What other assassinations, tragedies etc. can only be properly understood by conspiracy theories? |
Let's not forget Malcolm.
We'd love to hear your "lone nut" or other theories. Please elaborate.
|
Yes. Let us not forget Malcom.
But anyone who starts with the Elvis did it nonsense is not worth wasting any time with.
For those with a brain; a mountain of FACTS have been uncovered in these cases. They are not theories.
The Single Bullet Theory is a theory. The cover-ups of the other matters are based on theories and lies.
There is no evidence, hard or soft, that supports the single bullet theory (SBT). Its defenders have spent a lot of time proving that it could have happened that way, which is not the same as proving that it did, a distinction they don't make. But they can't even prove it hypothetically because the sniper's nest and the various wounds of Kennedy and Connally do not line up. In addition, witnesses say the men reacted at two different times to two different bullets, and the Zapruder film seems to prove them right. To solve the problems of geometry and timing, promoters of the SBT have resorted to the use of junk science and chicanery. (See especially the crudely fraudulent computerized animation of the Zapruder film by Dale Myers: www.abclies.com/dale.html) But even these tricks do nothing more than give the appearance of proving the theory as opposed to proving the reality. There is still no evidence whatsoever for the SBT. But since when has that been a problem? Evidence can always be manufactured, especially when it involves the written word.
http://www.history-matters.com/essays/jfkmed/BigLieSmallWound/BigLieSmallWound.htm |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
igotthisguitar

Joined: 08 Apr 2003 Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
|
Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
East Timor President Criticises Response After Assassination Bid
SYDNEY (AFP) - East Timor President Jose Ramos-Horta has criticised the response of international forces as he lay bleeding in the road for 30 minutes after being shot outside his home last month.
In his first full interviews since he was critically wounded in the assassination attempt, the Nobel Peace Prize laureate described the chaotic events from the moment he locked eyes with the rebel gunman.
"I could see from the face and eyes of one of (rebel leader Alfredo) Reinado's men that he was going to shoot me," Ramos-Horta told The Sydney Morning Herald in an interview published Friday.
"I turned around. It was at that moment that he fired at least two shots, hitting me on the right side of the back.
"If I had not turned at that moment, he would have shot me right in the chest. I would have died immediately."
Ramos-Horta said he was told that United Nations police had obstructed people trying to rescue him as he lay bleeding near the front gate of his house in the capital Dili on February 11.
"I was shouting for an ambulance," he told the Australian Broadcasting Corporation. "My security people in the meantime had arrived, and it took so long for an ambulance to arrive.
"It was a battered ambulance without a paramedic, only the driver. Fortunately a Portuguese paramedic jumped into our ambulance."
The president, who is recuperating in hospital in the northern Australian city of Darwin, accused international peacekeeping forces in the country of not acting quickly enough to stop the rebels' escape.
"I would say that the Australian-led forces could have promptly surrounded the entire town closing all the exits, using helicopters, sending immediately elements to my house to get the information on the ground," he said.
"They would have captured them within hours."
Reinado was killed during the attack and eight rebels have surrendered, while East Timor's military and police, with help from the Australian-led international stabilisation force, are pursuing others.
International forces were sent to East Timor after friction erupted in 2006 between army and police factions after a military desertion led to an increase in street violence that left 37 people dead.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/afp/080328/world/timor_unrest_president_australia
Last edited by igotthisguitar on Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:35 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003 Location: Established in 1994
|
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 12:58 am Post subject: |
|
|
You're spamming again, IGTG. This is the second thread I've found that post on.
You're being naughty again. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
igotthisguitar

Joined: 08 Apr 2003 Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
|
Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
You're "spamming" ... again ...
This is the second thread I've found that post on.
You're being naughty ... again. |
Posting a current "hot" issue TWICE in the CE events forum = SPAM?
Dude, get a life.
 |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
luvnpeas

Joined: 03 Aug 2006 Location: somewhere i have never travelled
|
Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 8:41 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Funkdafied wrote: |
regicide wrote: |
Conspiracy theories arise from evidence. |
Incorrect. Conspiracy theories, by definition, arise definitively from a lack of evidence. That is why they remain theories. |
A comspiracy theory is just a theory that there is a conspiracy about something. Watergate was a conspiracy theory.
Things don't "remain theories" because of a lack of evidence. A theory can be supported by evidence. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
igotthisguitar

Joined: 08 Apr 2003 Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
|
Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:02 am Post subject: |
|
|
luvnpeas wrote: |
Funkdafied wrote: |
regicide wrote: |
Conspiracy theories arise from evidence. |
Incorrect. Conspiracy theories, by definition, arise definitively from a lack of evidence. That is why they remain theories. |
A comspiracy theory is just a theory that there is a conspiracy about something. Watergate was a conspiracy theory.
Things don't "remain theories" because of a lack of evidence. A theory can be supported by evidence. |
Indeed ...
All that much more reason of course for those "in the know" to destroy, distort, spin, limit, reject, misrepresent, or otherwise "suppress" evidence.
Debunk that! |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|