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igotthisguitar

Joined: 08 Apr 2003 Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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Posted: Wed Mar 26, 2008 9:22 pm Post subject: Fingerprints & The Fear Of Flying |
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Comment: 'I refuse to be fingerprinted'
Nigel Rumfitt QC, terrorism specialist, explains why he is opposed to compulsory fingerprinting at Heathrow.
Everyone using the new Terminal 5 at Heathrow for domestic flights will have to be fingerprinted. Who says so? Not Parliament. The British Airports Authority, a Spanish-owned private company, and British Airways say so.
Why? It's a government requirement, they tell us. But in free societies, government requirements come in the form of laws. Who made the requirement, when and in what terms?
Fingerprinting has been around for more than 100 years. In this country it has been used only to catch and identify criminals. No doubt that is why it carries a stigma. Compulsory mass fingerprinting is regarded as "unBritish", but the present Government seems determined to change our attitude.
A few years ago, with little publicity, the law was altered to allow the indefinite retention of fingerprints and DNA taken from suspects later acquitted or even released without charge. Police powers of arrest have been extended recently, allowing the more widespread obtaining of this data. Nonetheless, the Government has not yet dared to make mass fingerprinting compulsory. What this Government fears to do openly it tries to do by stealth.
Because you cannot be compelled to provide your fingerprints, both BAA and British Airways are saying that by choosing to fly through Terminal 5 you are "consenting" to the taking of your prints. That is disingenuous, to put it mildly. True, some people will not mind; others will object, but will not be prepared to abandon an important journey in order to register that objection. In practice, and without legislation, we will have become a nation that restricts the internal movement of its citizens by government decree.
Imagine how people would have reacted in the 1950s to the proposition that before boarding the Flying Scotsman at King's Cross you had to provide your fingerprints because the Home Secretary thought it a good idea.
These measures, it is said, will protect us against terrorism. That is nonsense. Modern Islamist terrorists want the world to know who they are. That's why they make video wills to show everyone exactly who has been martyred for the cause. Would any recent terrorist outrage have been prevented by ID cards or fingerprint records? If it would, why bring in vital security measures by the back door and confine them to domestic flights?
Another danger is that, at Terminal 5, illegal immigrants can swap boarding passes with domestic passengers and get into the country unchecked. This is because greedy BAA wants all passengers � domestic and international � to mingle in the same shopping mall before flying.
If this is only about verifying identity at the gate, why take four prints and not just one? Why keep these prints on file for "only" 24 hours instead of destroying them at the gate? To what use will the prints be put in that time? The Data Protection Act, quoted by BAA, in fact allows police access to this material.
This is not about security. It is about paving the way towards the database state, making it easier to force us to "consent" to giving our fingerprints when we apply for a passport. That's the final step before the compulsory ID card.
I already refuse to visit the United States because of oppressive security and I have indicated to BAA that I shall refuse to provide fingerprints unless I can be satisfied that it has a legal right to demand them. If the law has been changed to allow BAA to behave in this way, I shall find another airline.
Nigel Rumfitt QC is a specialist in serious crime, including terrorism.
Check the comments:
COMMENTS - 65
1. Posted by Dave McBay on March 26, 2008 01:25 PM
It isn't just terminal 5. I was finger-printed and photographed when transferring from a Terminal 4 flight to a Terminal 1 domestic shuttle. I was told in no uncertain terms that I would not be able to continue my journey unless I complied. The situation is ludicrous. What added insult to injury was the second finger-print check, just before boarding my second flight was staffed by 4 foreign born people. What sort of state finger-prints innocent locals and uses foreigners to inconvenience them? Madness. Our domestic flight left an hour late because of the security checks; the queues were so long that we had to sit on the tarmac whilst people's luggage was unloaded.
2. Posted by Frankie Howard on March 26, 2008 01:25 PM
Always makes me smile reading the "how dare they" comments from individuals opposed to progress. These things will happen regardless of the minority outcry. By all means "refuse to comply on principle" and "take your business elsewhere", just means the airport will be quieter for the rest of us. If you really think that it's not already a Big Brother/Police state then you'll completely deluded.
3. Posted by tim on March 26, 2008 01:24 PM
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin, 1759 Historical Review of Pennsylvania
4. Posted by TheTurfBurner on March 26, 2008 01:24 PM
It is to be hoped the Information Commissioner will rule BAA's crude fingerprinting process unlawful under the Data Protection Act (News 24 March). Fingerprinting of air passengers is both invasive and unnecessary - is there no Passport or Immigration Control at Terminal 5? That is where undesirables should be caught, not at the domestic departure gate.
The British people MUST take a stand against this increasingly sinister surveillance culture. Criminals will easily avoid fingerprinting at T5 by simply leaving the terminal and completing their journey by train. Meanwhile, the law abiding will be spied on as part of the "softening-up" process for the introduction of ID Cards.
We must say NO. We are citizens of the United Kingdom - not suspects.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/839199/Comment-%27I-refuse-to-be-fingerprinted%27.html
Last edited by igotthisguitar on Sun Mar 30, 2008 8:33 am; edited 5 times in total |
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partialtone
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 5:24 am Post subject: |
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Yes, because fingerprinting is just a stone throws away from jackbooted thugs sterilizing me while I sleep.
I really can't stand all these conspiracy theorists. It makes me ashamed of being a liberal and pushes me closer to the right. They're the same people that swore up and down Kennedy was paralyzed by an umbrella and share the same mentality of people who think the second coming will 'definitely' happen in their lifetime.
Being off the grid is fine, but don't take the stance that it's the smarter or more noble choice. |
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igotthisguitar

Joined: 08 Apr 2003 Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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partialtone wrote: |
Yes, because fingerprinting is ... just a stone throws away from jackbooted thugs sterilizing me while I sleep. |
Closer to the truth than what you may realize.
Are you a criminal PT? If not, why freely let yourself be treated like one?
Are you not in any way concerned about where this information goes? How it's stored? How's it's hacked & accessed, shared etc?
Fabian socialism = totalitarianism through incremental steps & measures.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope
Big Brother, nanny-state society is itself a major criminal fraud.
Moreover, in supporting the elite occult agenda, your sad comments reflect an all too common SLAVE mentality.
http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com/ |
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ttompatz

Joined: 05 Sep 2005 Location: Kwangju, South Korea
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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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Actually, blame the Americans.
They started this crap back in 2001/2 after the 9/11 attack on the WTC.
This is just tit-for-tat. |
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partialtone
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
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Posted: Thu Mar 27, 2008 10:06 pm Post subject: |
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igotthisguitar wrote: |
partialtone wrote: |
Yes, because fingerprinting is ... just a stone throws away from jackbooted thugs sterilizing me while I sleep. |
Closer to the truth than what you may realize.
Are you a criminal PT? If not, why freely let yourself be treated like one?
Are you not in any way concerned about where this information goes? How it's stored? How's it's hacked & accessed, shared etc?
Fabian socialism = totalitarianism through incremental steps & measures.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slippery_slope
Big Brother, nanny-state society is itself a major criminal fraud.
Moreover, in supporting the elite occult agenda, your sad comments reflect an all too common SLAVE mentality.
http://www.cuttingthroughthematrix.com/ |
You give the government WAY too much credit and the average person too little. Of course I'm concerned of where the information goes, but that doesn't prove your argument at all. Identity theft and personal privacy has been an important issue, it's a natural reaction to increasing availability of information. It's safe to say most people are concerned about it and would vote to protect themselves if there was a problem. Again though, you get carried away and act like you can google my name and get my DNA sequence, it's such a far cry. I mean, look at the backlash to the patriot act, supporters of it are on the way out and the opposition is on the way in, it's a direct correlation to public opinion and the beauty of democracy.
Haha, and I find it ironic that you used the slippery slope argument. I had actually wikid it before I posted the first time but thought I would spare you. The slippery slope argument can just as well be applied to things you would disagree with in the same way. I mean, slippery slope, once pot is legal then we'll have a society of addicts. And of course, slippery slope, once we start letting doctors euthanize people with chronic debilitating illnesses then there will be nothing in the way to stop doctors from sticking an icepick in the the back of the head of a child suffering from a hangnail. It's just as ridiculous to me as my fingerprints paving the way to the gulags.
Please brother, crazy conspiracy theories are standing in the way of progress. I continue to run in to a ton of wackos still pointing to 9/11 evidence that was debunked days after it was conjured. If they would stop spreading these lies then maybe the sane people would stop being polarized in to agreeing with the official story.
But really, why even worry about it anyway? The over-under on Jesus returning before the new world order takes over is 3:1. Don't panic  |
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moosehead

Joined: 05 May 2007
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Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:36 am Post subject: |
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partialtone wrote: |
Please brother, crazy conspiracy theories are standing in the way of progress. I continue to run in to a ton of wackos still pointing to 9/11 evidence that was debunked days after it was conjured. If they would stop spreading these lies then maybe the sane people would stop being polarized in to agreeing with the official story. |
jee it must be nice to live in your world - how's the weather there? no threat of global warming I bet
must be especially warm and cozy knowing the best research you can come up with is from wikipedia, huh?
fyi, the article posted by the OP was in regards to travel - this is the TRAVEL forum - try to stay on topic, ok? I for one, appreciate hearing updates on such issues as the one discussed regarding fingerprinting of travelers. just because you don't doesn't mean you can go off on a tangent spreading a lot of nonsense and dribble regarding your opinions of people who actually happen to give a d*amn about society - including drudges like yourself. |
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igotthisguitar

Joined: 08 Apr 2003 Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:57 am Post subject: |
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Yah, well ... whether on this part of the forum, or elsewhere, Partial-tone appears to be my latest stalker, shadow, harasser.
*shrugs*
Oh, i'm sorry, you'd like to fly?
Fingerprints please!
No, no ... we can take good care of this information.
Trust us  |
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partialtone
Joined: 27 Nov 2007
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Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 5:43 pm Post subject: |
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moosehead wrote: |
partialtone wrote: |
Please brother, crazy conspiracy theories are standing in the way of progress. I continue to run in to a ton of wackos still pointing to 9/11 evidence that was debunked days after it was conjured. If they would stop spreading these lies then maybe the sane people would stop being polarized in to agreeing with the official story. |
jee it must be nice to live in your world - how's the weather there? no threat of global warming I bet
must be especially warm and cozy knowing the best research you can come up with is from wikipedia, huh?
fyi, the article posted by the OP was in regards to travel - this is the TRAVEL forum - try to stay on topic, ok? I for one, appreciate hearing updates on such issues as the one discussed regarding fingerprinting of travelers. just because you don't doesn't mean you can go off on a tangent spreading a lot of nonsense and dribble regarding your opinions of people who actually happen to give a d*amn about society - including drudges like yourself. |
I not sure that we would disagree with each other Moosehead, maybe my point was lost because I addressed things that I know igotthisguitar believes that wasn't stated in the OP.
I stated exactly why you shouldn't worry about fingerprinting and why the overall mentality is wrong. I guess by using examples that means I am off-topic? . Haha, and I appreciate the stalker remark, considering I initially tried to give you the benefit of the doubt in the only other post that shares our names. Anyway, don't address my points igotthisguitar, I understand why you wouldn't want to. |
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igotthisguitar

Joined: 08 Apr 2003 Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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Posted: Fri Mar 28, 2008 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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For the record, if someone ( ANYONE ) is expecting me to submit my "fingerprints", optical eye-scan, DNA, X-RAYS, blood sample, or what have you,
... i will refuse to be "flying" anywhere ... PERIOD
LEST WE FORGET, THERE IS A WAR
A line has been drawn in the sand.
p.s. This reminds me, what's up with Heathrow? Seems they've hit some major sangs. CNN not really reporting on things much.
Hmmmmmm ... |
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PGF
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
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Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 12:09 am Post subject: |
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ttompatz wrote: |
Actually, blame the Americans.
They started this crap back in 2001/2 after the 9/11 attack on the WTC.
This is just tit-for-tat. |
yes, the patriot act strips US citizens of many liberties, but they haven't started finger printing us for domestic or international flights....... |
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thiophene
Joined: 15 Sep 2007
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Posted: Sat Mar 29, 2008 1:39 am Post subject: |
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PGF wrote: |
ttompatz wrote: |
Actually, blame the Americans.
They started this crap back in 2001/2 after the 9/11 attack on the WTC.
This is just tit-for-tat. |
yes, the patriot act strips US citizens of many liberties, but they haven't started finger printing us for domestic or international flights....... |
I know regardless of citizenship they fingerprint anyone who's been to Iran...well 100% of my friends and family who've been there. How strict of a policy this is, I'm not too sure. |
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igotthisguitar

Joined: 08 Apr 2003 Location: South Korea (Permanent Vacation)
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Posted: Sun Mar 30, 2008 3:58 am Post subject: |
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PGF wrote: |
yes, the patriot act strips US citizens of many liberties, but they haven't started finger printing us for domestic or international flights....... |
It's well in the works. |
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