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Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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| How do you like the way CE is changing, the status quo? |
| I prefer the old ways... |
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38% |
[ 13 ] |
| I think the mods are doing their best, it can't be perfect |
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11% |
[ 4 ] |
| The mods are too heavy-handed |
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20% |
[ 7 ] |
| I think the guidelines are not perfect, but needed |
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29% |
[ 10 ] |
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| Total Votes : 34 |
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The Lemon
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:18 am Post subject: |
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| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| they rarely venture out into the other forums where the humans are |
I entirely agree with all the rest of Mr. Lemon's post, but I do want to nitpick about the comment above. In nine years on the board, I don't remember a time when the General Forum has been over-run to such an extent with as negative, whiney posters as it has been this winter. Ugh. |
I stand corrected. I haven't been around in a while and didn't notice this. So what happened - did they escape? Time for a new fence.
I notice that the big-league forums/blogs (Boing boing, Consumerist) have strict no-nonsense "no public complaining about moderation" rules. I think the rules here are too loose.
Seriously - if you don't like what this board offers, go find/start another. If eslcafe suits your needs, super. Why be a drama queen about it? It's not like you're paying for it (and spare me the line about "our employers pay for the site through ads...")
This site, Dave Sperling, and the mods owe you NOTHING. Deal with it. That they're so understanding is a credit to them. |
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Ya-ta Boy
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:36 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| So what happened - did they escape? |
I don't really know, except that a fair number of the sane people have left us...kermo, Homer... The negativity has always been cyclical to some extent, but the tide rose higher this winter than ever (it seems to me).
I was refering to the over-all 'everything and everyone in Korea sucks' school of thought, but Mod-bashing has become an official sport, it would seem.
Or maybe I'm just getting crotchety. |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:27 am Post subject: |
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| wannago wrote: |
| Oh, look! Cartoon boy is back |
So... we're both in agreement that you're finding that being an asshole easier to pull off?
| cbclarke, looking splendid his new tinfoil hat wrote: |
You want closed doors and smoke filled rooms don't start polls.
Fill the room with smoke and make the deals behind closed doors.
Opinion and public debate oh no we wouldn't want that not on the Internet.
Lay the cards on the table what is your agenda. |
I though you already knew of an agenda being pursued? Now you want someone to provide you with one?
You need a bit more work if you want to become a true agent provocateur...
| The Lemon wrote: |
| I notice that the big-league forums/blogs (Boing boing, Consumerist) have strict no-nonsense "no public complaining about moderation" rules. I think the rules here are too loose. |
I agree they need to step up and stop taking crap from users. I'd have deleted this entire forum by this point and sent most of them on their way. |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 5:55 am Post subject: |
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| wannago wrote: |
| Some people need to try checking into the real world occasionally. |
In the real world, wannago, not liking how a guy runs his business means you don't frequent it. You don't yell at his staff in the hopes that he'll change things to suit your sense of entitlement. |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 6:27 am Post subject: |
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| twg wrote: |
| wannago wrote: |
| Some people need to try checking into the real world occasionally. |
In the real world, wannago, not liking how a guy runs his business means you don't frequent it. You don't yell at his staff in the hopes that he'll change things to suit your sense of entitlement. |
In the real world, son, businesses don't enforce rules for some customers and not for others. Talking about a sense of entitlement...eh, pot? Not to mention the fact that when businesses do change, customers do complain when they don't agree. I guess you would know that only in communist countries is expressing your opinion illegal. |
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The Lemon
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:17 am Post subject: |
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| wannago wrote: |
| I guess you would know that only in communist countries is expressing your opinion illegal. |
| wannago wrote: |
| Who do you think does pay for this site? You know, coming from a former mod, this means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. |
Thanks, comrade. |
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wannago
Joined: 16 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| The Lemon wrote: |
| wannago wrote: |
| I guess you would know that only in communist countries is expressing your opinion illegal. |
| wannago wrote: |
| Who do you think does pay for this site? You know, coming from a former mod, this means ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. |
Thanks, comrade. |
Hey gulag meister, I didn't say you couldn't say it, I just said it didn't mean much. |
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Enrico Palazzo
Mod Team
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 7:34 am Post subject: |
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| The Lemon wrote: |
| Ya-ta Boy wrote: |
| Quote: |
| they rarely venture out into the other forums where the humans are |
I entirely agree with all the rest of Mr. Lemon's post, but I do want to nitpick about the comment above. In nine years on the board, I don't remember a time when the General Forum has been over-run to such an extent with as negative, whiney posters as it has been this winter. Ugh. |
I stand corrected. I haven't been around in a while and didn't notice this. So what happened - did they escape? Time for a new fence.
I notice that the big-league forums/blogs (Boing boing, Consumerist) have strict no-nonsense "no public complaining about moderation" rules. I think the rules here are too loose.
Seriously - if you don't like what this board offers, go find/start another. If eslcafe suits your needs, super. Why be a drama queen about it? It's not like you're paying for it (and spare me the line about "our employers pay for the site through ads...")
This site, Dave Sperling, and the mods owe you NOTHING. Deal with it. That they're so understanding is a credit to them. |
The Lemon, your words are really appreciated. I was on a political forum, and half of what the mods tolerate would not be tolerated. The posters discuss a myriad of topics without swearing at each other, they disagree each other. Of course, the advantage that forum had was that
it had several regions to post in. You could post about Europe in the European section, the US and Canada in the North American section, Africa in the African section. Since we don't have that, the question was brought up in terms of what the posters thought about the amount of posts, the spamming that they brought up, not the mods.
One can also notice that certain posters posted several polls in order
to try to create some sort of dust rather than simply debate in an organized fashion the various issues. One poster posted so many polls in an indirect jab at the mods to say that person is against any kind of modding on the forum. People should remember the name of this cafe and to show some respect for that. That is pretty clear. We are trying to solicit opinions, asking pointed questions.
It is quite normal that a poster brought up the fact that there were rules, but they didn't appear to be enforced right now, and it is normal for some to feel apprehensive and to complain, and this board for the most
part is decent, but mods shouldn't be attacked for modding and going by the guidelines that the users agreed to when signing up. The Dude and Raoul Duke posted the guidelines not simply because they enjoy typing.
The person who said customers in a business have a right to complain.
That's a definite, but being rude about the complaints vis-a-vis the mods is pushing things a bit and is very unecessary. Why is the rudeness necessary?
When it comes to the conspiracy threads, the people who desire them and those who don't desire them should, if they choose, come to an understanding, a meeting point. Many voiced this issue to be a problem.
Why not come up with a solution. Should there be a constant thread up there for JFK and the person interested in posting it should post to his heart's content over there? We are trying to be scientific, balanced about this.
This forum is part of a private enterprise. The TV networks in the United States, I am sure some of the posters are familiar with, as well as the ones in Canada do have standards. People do not simply get on TV
to say what they choose on the coin of Rupert Murdoch, the Canadian tax payers when it comes to the CBC. If these things are communist, then the whole world is communist. It is understandable to raise questions, contact any mod, read the guidelines, ask questions respectfully.
Every organization has rules including the FCC, SEC, GAAP (accounting). Congress has rules of discourse as does the Canadian Parliament.
Basically, the posters are being asked to follow the guidelines that were posted in 2004 by Raoul, The Dude in 2007 etc.... If some posters do not want to follow them, that's another story.
Yes, it is normal for some people to complain, and it is expect.
Cordially yours... |
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The Lemon
Joined: 11 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Being rude about the complaints vis-a-vis the mods is pushing things a bit and is very unecessary. Why is the rudeness necessary? |
It's necessary because it's the point. They're the kids in the back of the class who get an ego boost from insulting and humiliating the teacher in front of the other kids, and the more insulting they are, the more they think they win. This isn't new - it's now been half a decade.
After 8 pages, could you make a list succinctly summarizing their specific grievances? Could they? I doubt it - it's all "the mods suck", "the new mods suck" and vague criticisms of threads pulled and "biases". To quote Yata Boy, " mod-bashing has become an official sport".
They *could* send PMs if they had issues they wanted worked out, but my guess is they don't - without the audience there's no fun, and no point. Whatever issue they bring up is just the excuse for the public mod bashing. There will never be an "agreement" or "understanding". It's not what they're here for. They're here for the 3rd period fight, not the hockey game. They're Hamas.
I don't think the moderators should set themselves up for a fall by feeding this element - they don't deserve your time.
But then, I'm not as nice.
And yeah, as memory serves, Raoul Duke did enjoy his typing. |
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twg
Joined: 02 Nov 2006
Location: Getting some fresh air...
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:52 am Post subject: |
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| wannago wrote: |
| twg wrote: |
| wannago wrote: |
| Some people need to try checking into the real world occasionally. |
In the real world, wannago, not liking how a guy runs his business means you don't frequent it. You don't yell at his staff in the hopes that he'll change things to suit your sense of entitlement. |
In the real world, son, businesses don't enforce rules for some customers and not for others. |
Actually, they do. They always tell the bad customers to leave. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 11:45 am Post subject: ... |
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I have a lot of things to say about numerous threads that have emerged over the past 24 hours.
I'm not finished here, but I would like to start here.
Lemon,
You were a mod here. Your name is Lemon. I'm fine with that. What I would point out is that, as the Lemon, you didn't go around "squirting" on threads, posters, whatnot...
Roleplaying is all good fun, but it's incredibly condescending to be meting out punishment while you joke about it at the same time.
We're all, or have been, teachers here.
I'm not sure I know the right way to go about it, but "Me and my ball of yarn say you've had too much whine with your cheese while flying CE airlines" is absolutely the WRONG way to go about changing this forum. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 1:16 pm Post subject: ... |
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Act II
Mod: Poster A is bad. He's done many bad things.
Poster B: Yes, poster A is part of a three-headed dragon. Let's clean up this board!
Mod: Yes, poster A is bad.
Poster C: Hey, Poster B is doing bad things, too!
Mod: OK. Come on kids. Poster A is bad. Poster B, don't get your feathers ruffled.
Poster B: Yes, poster A is bad. She isn't nice.
Mod: Yes, Poster A is bad, but let's not refer to poster A's gender. That's not nice.
Poster C: Hey, Poster B is still being bad.
Mod: Yes, Poster A is bad, but he's trying. Hey, Poster B, do you think you're being bad to Poster C?
Poster B: Nope.
(Poster B goes over and tosses the F-bomb on Poster C)
(All related threads disappear)
Hmm. |
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Poktanju
Mod Team
Joined: 15 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 2:59 pm Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Nowhere Man wrote: |
I have a lot of things to say about numerous threads that have emerged over the past 24 hours.
I'm not finished here, but I would like to start here.
Lemon,
You were a mod here. Your name is Lemon. I'm fine with that. What I would point out is that, as the Lemon, you didn't go around "squirting" on threads, posters, whatnot...
Roleplaying is all good fun, but it's incredibly condescending to be meting out punishment while you joke about it at the same time.
We're all, or have been, teachers here.
I'm not sure I know the right way to go about it, but "Me and my ball of yarn say you've had too much whine with your cheese while flying CE airlines" is absolutely the WRONG way to go about changing this forum. |
I hope the majority of posters agree that there are much more pressing issues that need contending with, rather than concerning ourselves if a mod exhibits some wit in their posts.
Reading your next post and the veiled way you are bringing up beefs about Enrico and Gopher, reveals that you also are no stranger to attempts at wit. And such veiled barbs are the RIGHT way to bring about a better forum?
Anyways, we will make note of you expressing 'do as I say, not as I do'. Now lets please return to discussion of the larger issues at hand. |
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Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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I'm annoyed now. It took awhile, but I'm there. It seems odd that the obnoxious, multiple threads on the same general topics are now mod initiated threads about how to administer the board.
I love irony as much as the next poster, but this has gotten out of hand. If you're gonna change the rules, just change them. We'll either leave or adapt. Even better, why not do what seems to be the job of mods on most boards and deal with abuse as it occurs. Endlessly discussing ways to preempt abuse has become as annoying as the abuse itself. Please stop it. I beg you. |
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mole
Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Act III
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| Posted: Wed Apr 02, 2008 10:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Who let the mods out of their secret bunker anyway? |
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