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| Are you interested in discussing the JFK assassination here? |
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| Total Votes : 40 |
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regicide
Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Location: United States
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 Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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| SuperFly wrote: |
How about giving him his own sticky thread - Regicide can update whenever he needs to pass along new or related info.
Much less annoying that way... |
This is a perfect example of �you give them an inch, and they will take a mile".
We don't need to agree to the stinking "rules" proposed on this forum
and I think the efforts to do so are going to backfire. Efforts to suppress speech always do.
We have put a good offer on the table and now that is not good enough.
going , going , gone.....
Last edited by regicide on Thu Apr 03, 2008 5:51 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 5:09 pm Post subject: |
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| regicide wrote: |
| SuperFly wrote: |
How about giving him his own sticky thread - Regicide can update whenever he needs to pass along new or related info.
Much less annoying that way... |
This is a perfect example of " you give them an inch, and they will take a mile".
We don't need to agree to the stinking "rules" proposed on this forum
and I think the efforts to do so are going to backfire. Efforts to surpress speech always do.
We have put a good offer on the table and now that is not good enough.
going , going , gone..... |
You still didn't address how they are current events. It is good you want to be things in one thread generally, but will we get one JFK thread and then an RFK thread. I am still looking to see how these things are current. Maybe, more current than Napoleon or Hitler, but that's history class stuff and different theories about history. Why do you choose to post it here rather than on the off-topic? Is it because you think people who read about politics in the CE would be more likely to read it? Some members prefer a sticky, but you have multiple assasinations you want to deal with.... It's understood, but, again, are these things current?
What is your exact offer regarding these assasinations, so we know
what we are supposed to be getting or looking over? And I would appreciate if you would answer my other questions...
Thanks..
I think these are fair questions.... |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 5:22 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| You still didn't address how they are current events. It is good you want to be things in one thread generally, but will we get one JFK thread and then an RFK thread. I am still looking to see how these things are current. Maybe, more current than Napoleon or Hitler, but that's history class stuff and different theories about history. Why do you choose to post it here rather than on the off-topic? Is it because you think people who read about politics in the CE would be more likely to read it? Some members prefer a sticky, but you have multiple assasinations you want to deal with.... It's understood, but, again, are these things current? |
It will take me a little while to put something together to draw the line for you from JFK to 9/11 (and beyond on both ends), but in the meanwhile have a look at How to Create an Angry American. I am not saying I agree with everything in that video, but it's a start. I advise you to skip over the couple of minutes about the deformed/mutilated babies in the middle. It is OTT in my opinion. |
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regicide
Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Location: United States
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| Posted: Thu Apr 03, 2008 5:47 pm Post subject: |
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Yes, these are fair questions.
As you guessed, there are new developments in these cases which would make them current events. Clearly, if someone posts a new article dated a few days ago, one cannot argue that it is not a current event.
As I mentioned before, the JFK Assassination marks the beginning in recent US history of a pattern of political assassinations.
The JFK assassination matters because, regardless of who actually killed him, it lifted up the rock of violence and bloodshed that was the national security state that we opted to become after World War II, the murders and coups and assassination plots from Cuba to Iran to Guatemala to South Vietnam that possibly blew back from Havana to Dealy Plaza and continue to echo today.
The JFK assassination matters because, regardless of whether there was one gunman or 11 side-by-side on the Grassy Knoll, it paved the way for the unhindered growth of the military-industrial complex that President Eisenhower warned us about, one that fueled companies like Brown and Root that got rich on Vietnam and continue to get even richer as Halliburton's KBR in Iraq.
The JFK assassination matters because, no matter who pulled the trigger, it told us that to be an American in the 20th and early 21st Century would mean that we could not rely upon our government to tell us the truth, that the unending battle for free speech and a free press would become the fight for the soul of America.
And so while the war that started with a European assassination in 1914 was over in four blood-splattered years, the kind of a cold war that was launched in Dallas on Nov. 22nd, 1963, continues in many ways to this day, marked by minor ups and downs and by a first act which has been exposed as a lie since the Warren Report has been completely ripped apart.
The actual killer could not have been Lee Oswald; however, therefore we know other people were involved and have not been brought to justice.
Why do we know this? Because no matter how hard people try putting a square peg in a round hole through computer simulations and other nonsense, the single bullet theory still does not work.
The SBT fails on trajectory; the shot supposedly came from the 6th floor of a building yet goes straight out of Kennedy and hits Connely.
Kennedy was hit in the back according to the autopsy report, not the neck; the pristine bullet found mysteriously on a stretcher does not have a chain of custody: the Zapruder film clearly shows Kennedy hit from the front and Connely being hit at a different time than Kennedy; Kennedy reacting to a wound to his throat long before receiving the fatal head shot to his temple. Nothing adds up.
Talk about the "glove doesn't fit" Johnny Cochran would have had Oswald out of jail in time for dinner- - Friday night the 22nd!
The SBT is so unbelievable I do not understand why there is still any debate on the matter.
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JFK's clothes showing a wound in the back, not the neck:
This bullet is new; yet it is the actual bullet claimed to have killed Kennedy and injured Connely:
An obvious fake picture used to frame Oswald:
Last edited by regicide on Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:23 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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stevemcgarrett
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 12:48 am Post subject: |
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regicide wrote:
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| The JFK assassination matters because, no matter who pulled the trigger, it told us that to be an American in the 20th and early 21st Century would mean that we could not rely upon our government to tell us the truth |
I see, and that problem first cropped up in late autumn 1963, eh? 
Have you thought of spending some of your thread time sending PMs to IGTG? It might be a marriage made in Heaven. |
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arjuna
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 1:46 am Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
You still didn't address how they are current events.
What is your exact offer regarding these assasinations, so we know
what we are supposed to be getting or looking over? |
You may protest, but you don't see the relevance of the conspiracies that are now being exposed because you are not interested. There have been enough posts here, and many messages at different sites on the web to get you interested in finding out if there are backgrounds to historical events that are hidden from the public's view. If you are not interested in waking up, then no one and nothing will motivate you to move from your complacency.
Generally, you are too satisfied with your "sophisticated" "rational" and "scientific" view of the world and lost in the cleverness of the gibberish of your philosophies to accept the possibility that there may be realities beyond your ken, that indeed you may have been fooled, that there may be intelligences that are laughing at your stupidity. [Generally speaking here.]
What good is meditation and awareness when they cannot even get you to notice the most glaring inconsistencies in the structure of your realities? |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 2:02 am Post subject: |
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| arjuna wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
You still didn't address how they are current events.
What is your exact offer regarding these assasinations, so we know
what we are supposed to be getting or looking over? |
You may protest, but you don't see the relevance of the conspiracies that are now being exposed because you are not interested. There have been enough posts here, and many messages at different sites on the web to get you interested in finding out if there are backgrounds to historical events that are hidden from the public's view. If you are not interested in waking up, then no one and nothing will motivate you to move from your complacency.
Generally, you are too satisfied with your "sophisticated" "rational" and "scientific" view of the world and lost in the cleverness of the gibberish of your philosophies to accept the possibility that there may be realities beyond your ken, that indeed you may have been fooled, that there may be intelligences that are laughing at your stupidity. [Generally speaking here.]
What good is meditation and awareness when they cannot even get you to notice the most glaring inconsistencies in the structure of your realities? |
John Fitzgerald Kennedy was assasinated in the United States 2 score and 5 years ago (i.e. 45) years ago. It is part of history. It is far from 2008. I know there are realities beyond my ken. I also know there is a lot of classified information, so we can't have the full reality. This is all still speculation over something that happened 2 score and 5 years ago.
It is hardly recent.
September 11th is recent. Meditation is one thing, and you are being judgemental. Also, you use the name Arjuna. You focus on the form, judgements to come to a conclusion about my lack of spiritual enlightenment simply, because I say Abraham Lincoln in 1863 is not recent and neither is Kennedy of 1963. The discussion of theories deal with the history of the United States whether about Lincoln or Kennedy or McKinley. I am not against people discussing things, but many of these conspiracy theories seem to belong in a history forum, but there is no such thing on Dave's. Remember, people have a right to disagree. On the surface, it doesn't seem current at all anymore than Winston Churchill is to England. There are all kinds of conspiracies in history, by the way.
That's natural. But, they are not current.
If we turn on the news, they do not discuss the Kennedy assasination.
So it is not current news, it is not something that happened recently, so it is not, by definition, a current event and tying it to the present involves doing so by speculating. Does it meet the definition of a current event?
We could discuss Napoleon and how modern France became modern France. Napoleon in 1798 or Kennedy in 1963 are both part of history.
History is replete with conspiracies from the past. |
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arjuna
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 4:48 am Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
I know there are realities beyond my ken.
September 11th is recent. Meditation is one thing,
and you are being judgemental.
Also, you use the name Arjuna. You focus on the form, judgements to come to a conclusion about my lack of spiritual enlightenment simply, because I say Abraham Lincoln in 1863 is not recent and neither is Kennedy of 1963.
I am not against people discussing things, but many of these conspiracy theories seem to belong in a history forum, ... But, they are not current. |
You are here to be a human being. If you wake up and recognize that the world has been fucked up and that humans have not been human beings, you should then also recognize the necessity for you to be a human being at all costs. What this entails, briefly, is pain. You the person who houses a human being cannot be in harmony with a world which is in disharmony with the universe.
Arjuna is a label, though more fitting than others.
I am trying to describe to you the factual state of human consciousness. The sentiment may come across as judgmental, but it appears so only because I also have to take part in the reality of humans, as my body and person reside in this reality.
Lincoln, Kennedy, King, 9-11, the Fed are all connected. And you as a soul are here to discover the truth, be free, and create a new reality. No other being is allowed to do it for you. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 5:52 am Post subject: |
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| arjuna wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
I know there are realities beyond my ken.
September 11th is recent. Meditation is one thing,
and you are being judgemental.
Also, you use the name Arjuna. You focus on the form, judgements to come to a conclusion about my lack of spiritual enlightenment simply, because I say Abraham Lincoln in 1863 is not recent and neither is Kennedy of 1963.
I am not against people discussing things, but many of these conspiracy theories seem to belong in a history forum, ... But, they are not current. |
You are here to be a human being. If you wake up and recognize that the world has been fucked up and that humans have not been human beings, you should then also recognize the necessity for you to be a human being at all costs. What this entails, briefly, is pain. You the person who houses a human being cannot be in harmony with a world which is in disharmony with the universe.
Arjuna is a label, though more fitting than others.
I am trying to describe to you the factual state of human consciousness. The sentiment may come across as judgmental, but it appears so only because I also have to take part in the reality of humans, as my body and person reside in this reality.
Lincoln, Kennedy, King, 9-11, the Fed are all connected. And you as a soul are here to discover the truth, be free, and create a new reality. No other being is allowed to do it for you. |
You are preaching, but you are not a guru. There is no darshan with you, though you speak as if you are giving a darshan. Even the highest of gurus wouldn't speak as you have done above. You are using politics
of Lincoln, Kennedy, 9-11, and the like and saying they are connected and trying to connect that to connecting to enlightenment, samadi.
It is not. Samadi is not of the world or solving the problems of the world. You may use a Hindu avatar, and I am no expert on Patanjali, the Gita, or the Sutras, but what you are saying does not connect to anything sacred.
Good try, however.
By the way, I have studied politics, was a political activist, was at protests, I am well-read and well-versed on politics. I have heard so many ideas under the sun including the freemasons and Jewish control etc.... I do not have to agree with your political ideas. Lincoln was assasinated, and he was one of the most moral presidents America has ever had, but McKinley was also shot and killed. There could have been a conspiracy against Kennedy. However, Lincoln was involved in a war in with southerners were killed. Over 600,000 people were killed in that war, and a southerner shot him. There is no surprise there.
By the way, Jesus said what glory is it for you to save the whole world and lose your own soul, he said nothing about preoccupying one's self about what happened to Lincoln in 1863 when the British Empire was more powerful than America. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:07 am Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
You are preaching, but you are not a guru. There is no darshan with you, though you speak as if you are giving a darshan. Even the highest of gurus wouldn't speak as you have done above. You are using politics
of Lincoln, Kennedy, 9-11, and the like and saying they are connected and trying to connect that to connecting to enlightenment, samadi.
It is not. Samadi is not of the world or solving the problems of the world. You may use a Hindu avatar, and I am no expert on Patanjali, the Gita, or the Sutras, but what you are saying does not connect to anything sacred.
Good try, however.
By the way, I have studied politics, was a political activist, was at protests, I am well-read and well-versed on politics. I have heard so many ideas under the sun including the freemasons and Jewish control etc.... I do not have to agree with your political ideas. Lincoln was assasinated, and he was one of the most moral presidents America has ever had, but McKinley was also shot and killed. There could have been a conspiracy against Kennedy. However, Lincoln was involved in a war in with southerners were killed. Over 600,000 people were killed in that war, and a southerner shot him. There is no surprise there.
By the way, Jesus said what glory is it for you to save the whole world and lose your own soul, he said nothing about preoccupying one's self about what happened to Lincoln in 1863 when the British Empire was more powerful than America. |
Have you watched How to Create an Angry American yet? |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:30 am Post subject: |
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You did read that I studied politics, was a political activist. There is nothing new in this video for me. I was against the war from the beginning, and I was stating that over a year before the war and was warning about this, and I also told colleagues at my former workplace that the war would backfire and bombs would go off in Iraq when they thought the war was over (mission accomplished). As far as Bush remembering what he saw, Bush fumbles. Giving Bush too much credit for orchestrating things on his own is a bit rich. I also know about Bush senior and the Sabah family working with Knowlton Hill to sell the American people the baby incubator story. It's a matter of powerful Republicans who had a certain agenda in the world and in the Middle East, and as Noam Chomsky (though I know some don't like him) said, the people must be lied to somewhat to carry out the agenda.
The video is extremely sensationalist with the skull and bones images
and the dead babies. It is very propagandistic rather than focusing on the facts. As one prominent US historian said America has an empire, and many will do what they can to maintain, but you are going in all these crazy conspiracies that no empire has ever had. It is simple an empire trying to keep its place, and the US had no empire when Lincoln was around. It's Real Politik of an empire.
It is a bit rich to suggest a Catholic order, the Jesuits, are in cahoots with the Federal Reserve. What is the evidence the fact that one of the founders of the Jesuits was also a free mason? Also, showing some priests with the Nazis doesn't put things in proper context. So many things are just taken out of context it appears. I am open-minded, but as a historian and a political science person, the methodology is extremely and ideologically flawed for propagandistic purposes.
The film takes actions of an empire and twists it.... I don't agree with the empire, but I certainly don't agree with the film's propagandistic agenda.
Thanks, anyway, I am sure you are a well-meaning fellow, but I have seen ideas like this before. They are not new... |
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arjuna
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:10 am Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
Even the highest of gurus wouldn't speak as you have done above.
what you are saying does not connect to anything sacred.
Samadi is not of the world or solving the problems of the world. |
When have I ever said samadi is the solution to world's problems? I said that if you are aware, then you should at least begin noticing that things are royally fucked up in the world, including the so called samadi.
I sure hope what I say does not connect to anything sacred. You have an idea of the sacred which you have gathered from whatever passes for sacred in the world.
This is gettng too off-topic, and I have spoken enough anyway. |
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arjuna
Joined: 31 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| You may use a Hindu avatar, |
My current avatar? It ain't Hindu. Not that it matters. |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:42 am Post subject: |
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The Kennedy Assassination (JFK) is a current event. It has been since the day it happened.
If you were alive and beyond your infancy, you remember. It will stick forever in your memory. What's more, a large group of people has never accepted the official investigation's version of events. The discussion has never stopped.
The cries of "conspiracy" began the same day. They have never ceased. The government has covered up details, hidden and destroyed evidence, and just plain lied. It may very well be that Lee Harvey Oswald was the lone assassin. Computer studies have shown the positions of the people in the car and the trajectory of the bullets line up and explain the wounds: that the story is plausible.
But, we still have questions and doubts. They have never stopped. The "event" is still current. Many are bored with it, not interested or have already made up their own minds. It's still important to others. They should carry on.
There should be threads for: JFK, RFK, MLK, and the George Wallace assassination attempt as well, if anyone is interested. These are all current. They do not need multiple threads, but one for each while posters are interested.
There is also a place for threads discussing linkages. The 4 cases I have cited do seem to be linked. The possibility of linkages makes the case for further discussion.
Being mentioned by the mainstream media in the world of infotainment is not the only measure of being a current event.
The JFK assassination is a current event because it has never stopped being a current event. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 04, 2008 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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| arjuna wrote: |
| Adventurer wrote: |
Even the highest of gurus wouldn't speak as you have done above.
what you are saying does not connect to anything sacred.
Samadi is not of the world or solving the problems of the world. |
When have I ever said samadi is the solution to world's problems? I said that if you are aware, then you should at least begin noticing that things are royally fucked up in the world, including the so called samadi.
I sure hope what I say does not connect to anything sacred. You have an idea of the sacred which you have gathered from whatever passes for sacred in the world.
This is gettng too off-topic, and I have spoken enough anyway. |
What do you really know? The world has always had problems since it first started. There has been Genghis Khan, Hitler, the collective insanity has always been there. We just have more weapons and more power to do damage. That's all that has changed. It's still the same world in many ways that crucified Jesus, Al Hallaj, and burned John Huss on the stake.
Your idea of the sacred is up to you to figure out, but you are being judgemental. Consider the Zen vows which trace the ideas in the Gita before you judge another person, just because they don't agree with yoru brand of politics. It isn't humble at all, Arjuna. By the way, the real Arjuna wasn't remotely like that.
Back to this Kennedy thing, it is not current by definition anymore than Charles De Gaulle or the 6 day war or the 1973 or Ben Hur by Heston or the Planet of the Apes. If I brought up the Lusitannia and said the British wanted it suck, and there was a conspiracy, I would have a point, but it happened in World War I. It's not current, it is a historical event, it is not discussed on the news. They are part of our lives in a way, but they still don't fit the criteria. Something that is current is something happening now or very clearly relates to it. If someone asks where do you currently live, they are not asking you about where you lived five years ago. Where do you exactly draw the line on what is a historical event?
Why can't we argue, then, that the Great Depression is a Current Event?
Again, I am not arguing that those who want to post the conspiracy theories shouldn't, and I am not saying that many Americans don't believe in them. Many Americans do, and people can believe as they wish to believe. I have nothing against that, but I am saying it doesn't fit the definition of current unless Daniel Webster changed the dictionary.
Using another definition of current would make Charles De Gaulle current.
Kennedy is part of modern history. Was there a cover up or did some government elements from that time period want Kennedy killed?
Possibly, but it's speculation about a historical, not a current, event.
People should feel free to post conspiracy stuff, but those who disagree with their posts can rightly say their stuff is political but maybe, at most, loosely current. They are modern events, but not current ones.
If one posts a new article about MLK as there was one on the BBC site in the Americas section that would be current. It's from the news... |
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