Korean Job Discussion Forums

[tmcurro]

I've been at the same hagwon for more than 5 years. We have had a few Korean teachers come and go over the years with varying levels of English proficiency (some of whom ought to be students rather than teachers).

Last night I nearly lost it though due to the ineptitude of this one woman who has been teaching there since June. Not only does she not follow the SET SCHEDULE which undermines the whole system whenever she fails to follow it, but now she is WILLFULLY teaching bad information to the kids.

She told one of my Let's Go 4 classes that it is perfetly acceptable to write and say "cuz" for "because." Naturally, the kids take everything that a Korean says at face value and they take the waygook's comments with a grain of salt. I nearly flipped by this.

Oh and since she started working there, all of my kids feel the need to add the forms of "to be" between the subject pronoun and the verb, eg. ---What did you do yesterday? --I'm played computer games.

Now for the question. Does anybody else have to deal with this? I have complained to my boss, but I think that he felt it was a 'mistake' on her part, though I explained that there is a difference between a mistake and teaching bad information. Personally, I don't know when the woman found the time to teach this-- I only ever hear Korean spoken in her classes.

[erlyn]

Yes. But it's not just the teachers - often the material they are working from is deeply flawed, as well. For example, the grammar book that some of my middle school students learn from lists "I have never tried Mexican dish" as an acceptable response for a question. When I pointed out the error to the Korean teacher at my school, his response was, "Well, that's just how we say it in Korea." Well that's great, but try being understood outside your own country. My husband and I have been trying to compile a list of these "institutional" errors - not Konglish, per se. I see Konglish (and this is only my personal definition) as words or expressions that are used as slang in Korean, when people are speaking Korean, but people recognize as having English origins. For example:

"koreankoreankoreankorean handeu-ponekoreankoreankorean"

(Please forgive me for not being able to cobble together a proper korean sentence to use as an example - I am ashamed of my own inadequacy )

Of course, they run into problems when they use these words when they're trying to speak English, as the meaning is sometimes unclear to those unfamiliar with Konglish. (One-piece, hand phone, Knit for shirt, cafeteria for cafe, etc.

On the other hand, there seem to be a different category of errors, ones that have to do with misused grammar. Teaching a whole range of ages, however, I've seen a lot of the same errors crop up over and over, so much so that I've become convinced that they are taught as correct by Korean textbooks and teachers. Examples that I've noticed so far:

Saying, "Almost" when they mean "Almost All", ex.

"Almost Koreans like Kimchi."

"At that time" when they mean "then"

"Two weeks later" for "In two weeks"

"Lately" to mean "Late", ex. "I go to bed lately".

Using "Neighbourhood" for "Neighbour"

My personal pet peeve, using "Dish" for "Food" as per the above example. "Dishes" would be more acceptable, although then I might think they were talking about eating the flatware. (Student: "I haven't tried Mexican dishes." Erlyn: "Neither have I - I imagine they'd be just as crunchy as other kinds, though.")

Some of them are obvious errors. Some of them aren't quite wrong, but may not be the most common usage ("At that time"). I've had students swear up and down that they were taught that these expressions were correct. When I try to correct the error, I'm often met with, "Well, I was taught it was correct to say it that way." I always want to come back with, "Well, why waste your money on a native speaker then? Go home and learn from your craptastic books."

But I don't, because that would be rude. And it would probably have a negative impact on my employment status.

I'm interested in hearing more examples of these mistakes. I'd love to put a list together and do a class with my higher-level students.

[Austin]

Tmcurro,

I take it that part of your post was a bit of a rant, as I am sure you have developed a more balanced perspective on life and work after being in Korea for five years.

I doubt your coworker has a monopoly on the "market" of making mistakes or that you are infallible, so why not try to handle this situation with that balanced perspective that you have been working on?

Do you really think that she is purposely teaching her students things that she knows are incorrect?

Be fair on that point.

It is more likely that she does not know any better or that she truly believes that what she is doing is correct. Therefore, you will have to overcome both of your egos before any progress can be made toward correcting the mistakes.

Can this situation be handled without any party losing face?

Was going to your boss straight away the "best" way you knew for how to handle the situation?

If I worked with you and you were making mistakes with your students, would you want me to go immediately to our employer?

I would suggest you speak to your coworker privately the next time you have an issue.

What either of you believe to be acceptable may very well be different.
How might "flipping" help you?

In acquiring any language, mistakes are going to be made. I do not want my students to avoid them. I want them to make them! I view them as absolutely necessary to the process.

Why are you so opposed to them? Is perfection your thing? What is wrong with approximations? Some believe communication is all about understanding.

I am not sure whether you will be open to any of the above, but there is no doubt from your tone that you have yet to find a way to see yourself in your coworker. As soon as you do, I am sure your attitude will change.

Austin

[tmcurro]

I understand your response and I agree that the texts are often a problem. The only problem at my hagwon is that they don't USE Korean-made grammar books. We deal mostly with conversation, and use books like the Let's Go series.

I think that there are two brands of Konglish. There is the type that you mentioned, and then there is non-sensical Konglish, such as the pencil case that one of my students has, which says "I love virus" on it.

That is arrogant of the students or teachers who tell you that that is the "way we say it in Korea." I mean really. How would those same people react to a Westerner willfully butchering their language and disregarding their attempts to correct? Of course my boss keeps refusing to remove a sign that says "COMONNESS" [sic] on it. It is for games that are non-specific to any particular language level. I keep telling him that it is a.) not a word b.) if it were a word, it is misspelled, and c.) the more appropriate heading would be something such as "miscellaneous" or "general games." What would I know though; I am only a native speaker and I have a degree in languages....

On the other hand, there are many so-called native-speakers here who don't seem to know the first thing about English grammar or spelling conventions. One need not look beyond these boards for proof of that.

On a different note, for many years, the "correct" answer to one of the questions on the English section of the CSAT (university placement test) was "as possible I can."

[tmcurro]

[Down from Above]

[Mosley]

I sympathize with your frustrations-all the vets(and many rookies!) over here have had them-but at the risk of sounding like a smart @ss I don't think putting down other native speakers in your thread is going to help your cause much. In your first post, you have "bad" information(wouldn't "incorrect" be more suitable?);"perfetly" acceptable(no, it ain't) and "flipped by this"(I think most NSs would choose "at"). My point being that none of us are perfect and for Koreans(hell, all E. Asians)English is one hell of a language to learn-and learn to teach. Austin is right on one point(yes, folks, that chilly breeze blowing by you is hell freezing over): the best bet for some change of the situation is a PRIVATE, non-confrontational chat(maybe over lunch) w/the teacher concerned and offer to help her out in a friendly manner. If she rejects your offer, well, you tried and THEN you might consider going to the boss. Do your best to change the situation w/o causing a *beep* storm. That's my 2 cents....

[Down from Above]

Though it's usually better to deal with a colleague directly and quietly than to "rat" to the boss, I'm not sure what would be accomplished by a private word with this Korean teacher in this situation. What would that look like? "Oh, I didn't know 'cuz' was wrong", and then everything's OK?

I have Let's Go 5 students who wouldn't make the mistakes she's teaching. The mistakes the OP has described are indicative of a way bigger mountain of problems: a Korean English teacher who doesn't know English. And even Austin should admit that Korea has plenty of these, and they make the burden for Korean learners that much harder.

Yes Austin, there are lots of unqualified foreign teachers here as well.

[Mosley]

Well, I made my post before I read the OP's description of how bad this teacher is-and I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt there. I'd still be inclined to suggest that if there's ANY way of going to the colleague in question first, that's the route I'd take. Or at least talk to the boss w/her invited to the meeting.

[tmcurro]

[riverboy]

This is a typical situation that I have encountered while teaching here in Korea. I feel that many teachers(korean) do not care what the situation is with regards to thier mistakes in English.
Tmcurro, you are absolutely correct in saying what you did. I have experienced similar situations with korean teachers who aimply did not want to learn more than thier rudimentary skills.
One example was a teacher who refused to teache our kids that the letter F was not in fact EPugh! Another example is the time I had a student who took on the western name Dave but insisted that his Name was Daybugh!
I tried to explain it to the Korean teachers, but it fell on deaf ears.
I had a class of six year old students thier were five boys and two girls. One of the girls was a little behind on her phonics than the others. However, the other girl had taken a keen interst in the other and she was helping her a lot. Her improvement by my standards was fine.
Debbie Teacher came to me after a couple a weeks and addressed this problem. She asked me about Lucy. I told her how I felt and she asked me if "she should CHANGEY the class?" I said that in another month lucy would probabally be fine. She was not satisfied with this response and started an argument. I said "fine changey the class then Debbie." She told me that she "wanted my input" to which I responded: "if my input does not matter then please don't bother ask me." It made no difference to me if the girl left the class but it just was not necessary.
Her reply was that Lucy was not learning fast enough. This girl was very agressive in nature and I did not know her point. All I do know is that her reading skills were terrible. Her English was just as bad and I spent a good deal of my class time correcting her mistakes. Now I myself am not a prefect teacher, but my knowledge is better than hers and it really did not matter.
After her statement regarding Lucy not learning enough in three weeks, I simply replied; "Debbie, in my nine months at wonderland, your English has not improved one bit. Do what you want."

[tmcurro]

Riverboy,

Thanks for the interesting story. I know exactly where you are coming from on that. It can be so frustrating.

Most of the Koreans at my hagwon call the kids Daybugh, Jahn, Ahleeseu (Alice) and so forth. It is something that I have long ago given up on trying to correct. Best to try and convince the kids that maybe the "Konglish" teachers don't pronounce correctly.

On another note, I have a few kids with almost NO accents (to the ears of this Bostonian) when they speak English. I don't know if I am responsible for their proper pronunciation or not.

Funny though when they students are speaking better than the teachers.....

[schwa]

[The Lemon]

I put my money on the kids. There's more of 'em!

[riverboy]

I have worked with some very professional Korean teacher's, who provide an essential bridge between the studants and myself as both liason and instructor. It is a very difficult task to break the bad teaching habits of some. Perhaps it is the biggest challenge we face. Here is another story about another Korean teacher; This girls name was Kate. She was also very dissinterested in improving her very poor English. I was constantly spending time fixing her mistakes and having fruitless discussions with her for the first few months. I could not understand what the problem was. It was only until one day, when I asked her if I should do a certain number of pages. She looked, nodded and said "yes". I went to class, and found out she had already done three pages past that. It was only then, that I realised how rotten her English was.
For three straight months she simply said "yes" to everything I said. One day I went to ask her a question in the office. I said, "Kate.... Kate... Kate, KATE(yelling). Then in a moment of serendipity, it dawned on me... "Katugh!. She looked up!
After I realised the issue, I simply taught around her and focused some of my classes on Korean/ Konglish mistakes in English. It worked out allright.
Another thing you might want to explain is how north Korea feels that Modern South Korean is an impure form of Hangul Bastardised by western influence and tell that particular that her Korean is as terrible as her English