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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Kwangjuchicken
Joined: 01 Sep 2003
Location: I was abducted by aliens on my way to Korea and forced to be an EFL teacher on this crazy planet.
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 Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 8:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Hey Weatherman, do you know how many chickens (or other members of the poultry family) are currently employed as EFL teachers here in Korea? |
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J.B. Clamence
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:11 pm Post subject: Re: the article - reply from the journalist himself |
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The journalist said:
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| Now when I said there are 20,000 foreigners working illegally as English instructors, the number not only included those working illegally at Hakwons, but also those who are illegally teaching South Korean kids. Therefore, this also includes private tutors and those who have formed a small hakwon themselves. |
It looks like the confusion came about by his HUGE mistake in the article. In the article he said that:
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| It is estimated that there are more than 30,000 foreigners working as English instructors at private language institues. More than 20,000 are considered illegal migrants as the Justice Ministry said there are only 10,000 foreigners who have acquired the proper E-2 visa to work as an English instructor. |
But now he is saying that the 20,000 figure includes those who are teaching privates. That may be, but a lot of those 20,000 also have E-2 visas (although they are teaching illegally on the side). But in the article, he said that all 20,000 were "illegal migrants" (i.e- no visa) who were "working as English instructors at private language institutes," and as a group they were separate from the 10,000 legal teachers (ie- no overlap in the numbers - thus the 30,000 total).
This guy is a journalist?  Sounds to me like he needs to go back to school. |
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J.B. Clamence
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sat Nov 29, 2003 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
| Before I didn't care if someone was working illegally, as long as it didn't affect me, but there was a recent incident at my school that has changed my mind completely. |
I've never thought about turning someone in, but then again I've never had an experience or heard a story that would make me change my mind. So I'm curious, what was your experience? |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 5:25 am Post subject: |
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This is quite an interesting thread...in Japan private teaching isn't illegal (as far as I know - I never carried the notion that teaching privates was shady business until I came here) and it's done by a great many people that aren't native English speakers. Indian, Pakistani, Phillipine, you name it. Korea has quite a different atmosphere.
People that teach English privately on illegal terms drive down our wages - that may be true but I feel a bit strange about that. Once again I've never heard anybody say that in Japan, where the laws are different. Were the laws in Korea to permit private teaching by just about anybody entitled to live here, I wonder if we would feel the same way?
Also, a teacher's job is to teach the student well enough that he/she has no need for the teacher anymore. Assuming we are working here in order to teach as many people in the country as possible it stands to reason that if we do our jobs well they will be able to teach each other in a few decades and we will no longer be needed, or just not as much. In theory, anyway. I find it strange that we would do our best to teach English to as many people as possible while still struggling to keep the authority to teach it in our domain only.
Thoughts on that? Fire away. |
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weatherman
Joined: 14 Jan 2003
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 5:48 am Post subject: |
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http://joongangdaily.joins.com/200311/29/200311290225310209900090509051.html
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Tourists from China, Canada, Australia and Russia may soon be able to get multiple-entry tourist visas to Korea for the first time.
Multiple-entry visas, which allow the passport holder to enter the country as often as they like over a certain period of time without obtaining a new visa, are currently an option only for tourists from Japan and the United States. Australia and Canada passport holders can enter Korea visa-free for a 30-day stay, however.
The government announced yesterday that it was considering extending the privilege to tourists from the four other nations. The move is aimed at bringing more tourism to Korea, which had a cumulative $4.2 billion "travel deficit" as of October.
The cabinet is fine-tuning the proposal, which will be presented to President Roh Moo-hyun on Tuesday. |
The countries stated all have a lot of illegal workers in Korea already. What is looks like to me, is a way to provide incentives for even more undocumented workers, whether they be English teachers from Canada or Australia, service and 3D workers from China, and dancers and room hostesses from Russia. It is like the Korean government does one thing and then does another thing that totally negates the first. |
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Derrek
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 6:04 am Post subject: |
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Oh geeze!!!! Blame it on the US people in uniform!!!
What a crock of #*$*@~!
You'd think that this government would figure out that SOMETHING has got to change if the numbers are this bad, anyway.
They are just too corrupt to do anything about it. |
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Skarp
Joined: 22 Aug 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 6:20 am Post subject: |
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So - how do you shop someone who is breaking visa rules?
What will happen to them? Their employers?
Has anyone done it and why?
I am tempted - anything to reduce the number of duff teachers and bad hagwons - but how do you prove someone's illegal. Many admit it (dummies) and some are just too lazy to be careful about it.
Anyway - curious - who's turned someon in and can you do it anonymously?
Not sure I will do this - but how is it done>
Skarp |
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Derrek
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 6:21 am Post subject: |
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| You go to the immigration office on 2nd floor at Omokgyo. You can fill out paperwork there. It's on the immigration website. |
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Medic
Joined: 11 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 8:04 am Post subject: |
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The big homeschool programs like CPI(Mrs Keys) aren't hagwon based, so they aren't able to give their workers an E2 visa. All their foreign teachers are therefore working illegally, and do so without immigration deporting them. They have been doing this for years. What does that tell you?
Every three months they have to leave the country to renew their tourist visas. When they return to Korea, they are either waved right through immigration or they know whom the easygoing immigration officers are, and que up in their lines |
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The King of Kwangju
Joined: 10 Feb 2003
Location: New York City
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 9:54 am Post subject: |
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| TECO wrote: |
A guy from Canada told me recently that the hogwan owner he works for isn't renewing any of the teachers contracts and has brought in both Philippina staff and teachers to work the business.
Can any of you guess why? |
I know you're insinuating that the reasons are purely economic. Another reason is that teachers with in-country experience are more demanding than greenhorns, and are harder to manipulate.
Also, if the students don't care about the quality of their teachers, why should the hogwan owner? |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Sun Nov 30, 2003 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| J.B. Clamence wrote: |
| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
| Before I didn't care if someone was working illegally, as long as it didn't affect me, but there was a recent incident at my school that has changed my mind completely. |
I've never thought about turning someone in, but then again I've never had an experience or heard a story that would make me change my mind. So I'm curious, what was your experience? |
Two experiences. One person was...well, to put it charitably, a bit of a screwup, and had no idea (or so she claimed) that she needed a work visa to work in Korea. The recruiter who brought her in lied through his teeth to her from the get-go, and she had no idea she was working illegally until I told her. She got screwed over badly by both her hogwan and her recruiter. She called me in the middle of the night last year to help her pull a runner. The other was a guy who not only forged his university diploma, but was also working illegally at another school part-time. Sent home a pile of money, but got busted by immigration and was deported. Our school could have gone bankrup from the immigration fine, and he left owing money to a lot of people here.
I don't think there is anything wrong with filtering out the carpetbaggers anymore, they give legitimate teachers a bad reputation.
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| Assuming we are working here in order to teach as many people in the country as possible it stands to reason that if we do our jobs well they will be able to teach each other in a few decades and we will no longer be needed, or just not as much. In theory, anyway. I find it strange that we would do our best to teach English to as many people as possible while still struggling to keep the authority to teach it in our domain only. |
This assumes that the carpetbaggers are here to teach as many people as possible; they're not, they're here only to take advantage of the situation and to send as much money as possible home. |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 2:08 am Post subject: |
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| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
| J.B. Clamence wrote: |
| Manner of Speaking wrote: |
| Before I didn't care if someone was working illegally, as long as it didn't affect me, but there was a recent incident at my school that has changed my mind completely. |
I've never thought about turning someone in, but then again I've never had an experience or heard a story that would make me change my mind. So I'm curious, what was your experience? |
Two experiences. One person was...well, to put it charitably, a bit of a screwup, and had no idea (or so she claimed) that she needed a work visa to work in Korea. The recruiter who brought her in lied through his teeth to her from the get-go, and she had no idea she was working illegally until I told her. She got screwed over badly by both her hogwan and her recruiter. She called me in the middle of the night last year to help her pull a runner. The other was a guy who not only forged his university diploma, but was also working illegally at another school part-time. Sent home a pile of money, but got busted by immigration and was deported. Our school could have gone bankrup from the immigration fine, and he left owing money to a lot of people here.
I don't think there is anything wrong with filtering out the carpetbaggers anymore, they give legitimate teachers a bad reputation.
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| Assuming we are working here in order to teach as many people in the country as possible it stands to reason that if we do our jobs well they will be able to teach each other in a few decades and we will no longer be needed, or just not as much. In theory, anyway. I find it strange that we would do our best to teach English to as many people as possible while still struggling to keep the authority to teach it in our domain only. |
This assumes that the carpetbaggers are here to teach as many people as possible; they're not, they're here only to take advantage of the situation and to send as much money as possible home. |
Someone alluded to the hagwons themselves being responsible for this. While that it is true to an extent, we also have to take responsibility. Teachers who have E-2 Visas should be prepared to turn in these dummies to the immigration office. I find it abhorrent, I send half of my salary home to pay of the debts I incurred at university, while the dummies earn the same wage as me and don't have that burden. They are scumbags who degrade our profession, and stain our culture's reputation. Has anyone considered that the dummies themselves create a lot of friction between Koreans and Westerners? They are tools who shouldn't be allowed to short-circuit the system. |
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