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		| CentralCali 
 
 
 Joined: 17 May 2007
 
 
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				|  Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:20 am    Post subject: |   |  
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	  | wannago wrote: |  
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	  | CentralCali wrote: |  
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	  | wannago wrote: |  
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	  | CentralCali wrote: |  
	  | Perhaps you should try knowing what you're talking about sometime.  "Mainstream Christianity" isn't the only flavor of Christianity on the planet.  And the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is most certainly Christian {bolding mine}.
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 You could call yourself Mother Theresa.  That doesn't make you her.
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 Yeah, and just maybe in your next post on this topic, you could try making a relevant comment.
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 Hey, you haven't made a relevant comment on this thread yet.  I'm one ahead of you.
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		| wannago 
 
 
 Joined: 16 Apr 2004
 
 
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				|  Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:24 am    Post subject: |   |  
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	  | Miles Rationis wrote: |  
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	  | wannago wrote: |  
	  | Is this really the best you can do? |  
 Oh I think it sums up how silly your beliefs are quite nicely.
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 Damn, I'm CRUSHED!!  Some guy who had a bad experience with a priest thinks my beliefs are silly.  Whatever will I do?  You opinion means soooo much to me.
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		| Enrico Palazzo Mod Team
 
  
  
 Joined: 11 Mar 2008
 
 
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				|  Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:39 am    Post subject: |   |  
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				| Now, there is nothing wrong with disagreeing with any religion on this large planet of ours, posters.  However, you must remember the TOS, terms of service.  Do not engage in malicious bashing of religious figures using insults and the like, try to keep things civil, read your guidelines if you are a new poster, refrain from trying to purposely flame people etc.... Discuss whatever spiritual views you have but within a framework that doesn't entail blatant bigotry, or a crass attack on figures or the like... Purposely doing so over and over involves establishing a clear pattern in the minds of others that you are not being a responsible person or teacher, because you are ignoring the terms of service and don't care about being civil.  Engage in diverging views whether you are an atheist, a Christian, a Buddhist or what have you, it's just disgusting pictorials of figures, bashing people, because they don't conform to your personal beliefs can be problematic.   There is a difference between those who don't do intentionally and those who do it maliciously.  There is no need for it. |  | 
	
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		| Miles Rationis 
 
  
 Joined: 08 May 2007
 Location: Just Say No To Korea!
 
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				|  Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:13 am    Post subject: |   |  
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	  | wannago wrote: |  
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	  | Miles Rationis wrote: |  
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	  | wannago wrote: |  
	  | Is this really the best you can do? |  
 Oh I think it sums up how silly your beliefs are quite nicely.
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 Damn, I'm CRUSHED!!  Some guy who had a bad experience with a priest thinks my beliefs are silly.  Whatever will I do?  You opinion means soooo much to me.
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 Never had any experience with any priests. I was raised in a godless household and I don't believe because there is ZERO evidence that any of it is true. Show me some evidence and I will believe.
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		| itaewonguy 
 
  
 Joined: 25 Mar 2003
 
 
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				|  Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:17 am    Post subject: |   |  
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	  | CentralCali wrote: |  
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	  | itaewonguy wrote: |  
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	  | mindmetoo wrote: |  
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	  | newteacher wrote: |  
	  | No offense to the Mormons out there, but as someone who was born and raised in the Catholic church, I never really thought of Mormons as 'Christians'.  I hate to say it, but I think there are probably a lot of other Christians out there that would agree with me.  But then again, I've been wrong before. |  
 Anyone who believes that Jesus was the son of god I think is a christian. Many fundies don't think Catholics are christians either.
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 you need to study a little more I think,  you are blowing HOT AIR again!
 
 get your facts straight before you start your regular christian bashing!
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 What fact did he get wrong?  There are quite a few Fundamentalists who do not consider the Roman Catholic Church to be a Christian group.
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 mormons are not the christians he is speaking of! and he knows it!
 he is trolling!!
 
 
 
	  | Miles Rationis wrote: |  
	  | Never had any experience with any priests. I was raised in a godless household and I don't believe because there is ZERO evidence that any of it is true. Show me some evidence and I will believe.
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 zero evidence??? there is plenty of evidence you had better go the thread in  current events and post in there!
 you're eyes must be open to see the evidence though! sounds like in a house hold like yours they are stappled shut!
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		| Rteacher 
 
  
 Joined: 23 May 2005
 Location: Western MA, USA
 
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				|  Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:37 am    Post subject: |   |  
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				| I think that it's best to utlilize the rare human form of life to try to understand God and our relationship with Him by following the teachings and personal example of great empowered souls like Jesus. 
 By associating with spiritually qualified people who have great faith, one will naturally also develop faith and follow devotional principles.
 
 Agnostics and hard-core materialists who insist on physical evidence before following any devotional process will eventually see the evidence  at the time of death - but it's not going to be a heavenly (or transcendental) experience...
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		| Omkara 
 
  
 Joined: 18 Feb 2006
 Location: USA
 
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				|  Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:16 pm    Post subject: |   |  
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	  | Rteacher wrote: |  
	  | I think that it's best to utlilize the rare human form of life to try to understand God and our relationship with Him by following the teachings and personal example of great empowered souls like Jesus. 
 By associating with spiritually qualified people who have great faith, one will naturally also develop faith and follow devotional principles.
 
 Agnostics and hard-core materialists who insist on physical evidence before following any devotional process will eventually see the evidence  at the time of death - but it's not going to be a heavenly (or transcendental) experience...
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 It does not follow that because christ lived an extraordinary and inspiring life that his metaphysics are true. Nor does it follow that one when one experiences something subjectively that the explaination of the experience is a true understanding of the experience. A muslim will explain it thus, a christian so, a hindu in this way, and a buddhist in that.
 
 We can grant that there is some interesting experience that humans have been having. But we can also grant that they explain the expereince provincially, not objectively.
 
 I think it is a mistake of the religious apologist to dismiss non-beleivers as mere "materialists." To do so undervalues material and also weakens any argument which appeals to material which they may need to employ.
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		| bellum99 
 
  
 Joined: 23 Jan 2003
 Location: don't need to know
 
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				|  Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:16 pm    Post subject: |   |  
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				| The problem with Mormons is that they based their religion upon a previous religion to give it more validity.  They say that they follow the standard Christian bible but in fact they base the entire religion upon the Book of Mormon.  There has never been any evidence of Christ accending to heaven and coming to the new world.  There is evidence (of a sort) that proves the existence of Christ...but nothing substantuates what the book of mormon teaches.
 I have read the book of mormon and if I was to write a new bible, and had only been educated on the original bible, then I would write it like they did.  They tried to copy the feel and style of the original.
 
 
 
 
 
 PS:      You will never believe in God without first having a personal experience.  You cannot convince someone through words.  It is an experience that is unique and personal.  Many Christians don't really believe in a deep way..they just go through the motions. you need to find you own God and in fact cannot borrow someone else's.
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		| bellum99 
 
  
 Joined: 23 Jan 2003
 Location: don't need to know
 
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				|  Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:23 pm    Post subject: |   |  
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				| I have the following questions for Mormons to answer: 
 1: If the original 1830 Book of Mormon was inspired than why were there so many errors and changes and additions and deletions, when compared to current editions?
 
 2: Why does the B of M use old KJV type English at a time when it was not currently used.
 
 3: Why is about 1/8th of the B of M copied directly from the KJV (1611AD) when it was alleged to have been written some 1200-2000 years before the KJV existed?
 
 4: Joseph Smith deleted the italicized words in the KJV because he knew they were not in the original. "Then said I, Woe is me! For I am undone; because I am a man of unclean lips" Isa 6:5, The words "is & am" are deleted in the Book of Mormon.
 
 5: How can we be assured that the translation of the B of M into French is correct?
 
 6: How do you account for the stunning parallels in both content and order between the B of M and the View of the Hebrews, by Ethan Smith? Published in 1923 (7 years before the B of M) less than 100 miles from the Joseph Smith's parents home.
 
 7: Why did the angel take Nephi Plates back to heaven? Do they not belong with man?
 
 8: Mormon Article of Faith #8: "We Believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly; we also believe the Book of Mormon to be the word of God." Why do you only add the phrase, "as far as it is translated correctly" to describe the Bible and not after the book of Mormon when in fact there are far more translating errors in the Book of Mormon than the Bible?
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		| ED209 
 
 
 Joined: 17 Oct 2006
 
 
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				|  Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:00 pm    Post subject: |   |  
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	  | bellum99 wrote: |  
	  | PS:      You will never believe in God without first having a personal experience.  You cannot convince someone through words.  It is an experience that is unique and personal.  Many Christians don't really believe in a deep way..they just go through the motions. you need to find you own God and in fact cannot borrow someone else's.
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 Same for Vishnu, goblins, ghosts and aliens. The problem is that personal experience is open to number of psychological factors that makes the whole thing unreliable. A person may have an experience such a seizure but the only explanation they have for it at that time is God. Everyone has different personal experiences and they don't all point to God or even Christ. Our minds are not objective mediums to view the world though. That's why we have (wait for it....) experimental science. Something's going on  but it's appears to be all in the head.
 
 Just for fun an experiment in colour.
 
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=voAntzB7EwE
 
 
 
 As for finding your own God, how does that bring anyone to the truth other than we created God?
 
 
 Also on the matter of not insulting religious figures does that not extend to all persons. Why religious in particular.  If Charlton Heston and Bush get insults here why not Jesus or the Dalai Lama? People who hold ridiculous beliefs open themselves to ridicule.
 
 This "Do not engage in malicious bashing of religious figures using insults and the like, try to keep things civil" is very non-secular
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		| ED209 
 
 
 Joined: 17 Oct 2006
 
 
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				|  Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 4:03 pm    Post subject: |   |  
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				| 9. Why does DNA evidence show native Americans migrated from north east Asia not Israel? |  | 
	
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		| Omkara 
 
  
 Joined: 18 Feb 2006
 Location: USA
 
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				|  Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:01 pm    Post subject: |   |  
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	  | ED209 wrote: |  
	  | 9. Why does DNA evidence show native Americans migrated from north east Asia not Israel? |  
 Hm! Materialist!
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		| Omkara 
 
  
 Joined: 18 Feb 2006
 Location: USA
 
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				|  Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 5:57 pm    Post subject: |   |  
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				| how do the mormons explain this point of DNA evidence now? |  | 
	
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		| ED209 
 
 
 Joined: 17 Oct 2006
 
 
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				|  Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:10 pm    Post subject: |   |  
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				| Although I would like to wait for our Mormon friends on this site to answer that question here is something I googled. It's a response from a Mormon Microbiologist(B.S. in Microbiology and two years of graduate work in Virology and Physiology) 
 
 
 
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	  | There are too many signatures of angels and of the Holy Spirit of God on the book for me to dismiss it as bogus because of this recent revelation regarding a lack of DNA evidence to support the claim that the Book of Mormon is a factual historic document. 
 It's not that I'm not being dishonest with myself about the facts when they are presented.  Rather, it is because I also consider spiritual phenomenon to be factual, and I know of many times when science is not always right -- a fact that is borne out by later science.
 
 So rather than base my conclusions on what science is telling me now, I choose to hold out for better science.
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 http://www.greaterthings.com/Book_of_Mormon/DNA/
 
 I choose to hold out for better science this should be the response of anyone who doesn't like the answers science gives them.
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		| Omkara 
 
  
 Joined: 18 Feb 2006
 Location: USA
 
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				|  Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:29 pm    Post subject: |   |  
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				| It is an amazing argument. It shows so much about human psychology. 
 He admits the subjective factor. His reasons relate more to an emotional strain from within a community than they do with anything that would transcend that provincial view.
 
 I use the word "transcend" intentionally. The search for Truth is "spiritual," if we use the word stripped of it's superstitious baggage. Hence, such a spirituality that would in this manner hold out for "better science" is an inferior spirituality.
 
 Last edited by Omkara on Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
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