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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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 Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 3:37 pm Post subject: Trantric master tries twice to kill and fails on national tv |
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http://www.rationalistinternational.net/article/2008/20080310/en_1.html
A tantric master who claims he can invoke the "touch of death" by chanting "killi killi" and menacing a person with a knife squared off twice against an unbelieving skeptic. Hundreds of millions of Indians tuned in twice to see the gods smite this smug unbeliever. And nothing happened. Fail.
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After all his chanting of mantra (magic words) and ceremonies of tantra failed, the tantrik decided to kill Sanal Edamaruku with the �ultimate destruction ceremony� on live TV. Sanal Edamaruku agreed and sat in the altar of the black magic ritual. India TV observed skyrocketing viewership rates.
Once the ultimate magic was invoked, there wouldn�t be any way back, the tantrik warned. Within two minutes, Sanal would get crazy, and one minute later he would scream in pain and die. Didn�t he want to save his life before it was too late? Sanal laughed, and the countdown begun. |
Reminds me a bit of the time Fiveeagles claimed there were witchdoctors in Africa that would kill me dead with their powers and wouldn't I like to put my money where my mouth was? Yes, please, if you know any spells that can kill me, please try. |
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catman
Joined: 18 Jul 2004
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Sanal Edamaruku must obviously be a witch himself. Burn him. |
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deadman
Joined: 27 May 2006
Location: Suwon
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| Posted: Sun Apr 06, 2008 9:38 pm Post subject: |
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I've always thought those type of techniques (no-touch or one-touch) rely on some sort of cooperative relationship, like a hypnotist and his willing subject. The students submit to the master's influence, and are strongly affected. Against an actual opponent, they would be far, far less effective. The second link bears that out. |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 1:57 am Post subject: ... |
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| Maybe he just decided at the last minute that he didn't want to kill him. |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 3:20 am Post subject: |
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| deadman wrote: |
I've always thought those type of techniques (no-touch or one-touch) rely on some sort of cooperative relationship, like a hypnotist and his willing subject. The students submit to the master's influence, and are strongly affected. Against an actual opponent, they would be far, far less effective. The second link bears that out. |
Yeah, actually that part of this thread reminded me a lot of Mage:The Ascension:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mage:_The_Ascension
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The basic premise of Mage: The Ascension is that everyone has the capacity, at some level, to shape reality. This capacity, personified as a mysterious alter-ego called the Avatar, is dormant in most people, who are known as sleepers, whereas Mages (and/or their Avatars) are said to be Awakened. Because they're awakened, Mages can consciously affect changes to reality via willpower, beliefs, and specific magical techniques.
The beliefs and techniques of Mages vary enormously, and the ability to alter reality can only exist in the context of a coherent system of belief and technique, called a paradigm. A paradigm organizes a Mage's understanding of reality, how the universe works, and what things mean. It also provides the Mage with an understanding of how to change reality, through specific magical techniques. For example, an alchemical paradigm might describe the act of wood burning as the wood "releasing its essence of elemental Fire," while modern science would describe fire as "combustion resulting from a complex chemical reaction." Paradigms tend to be idiosyncratic to the individual Mage, but the vast majority belong to broad categories of paradigm, e.g., Shamanism, Medieval Sorcery, religious miracle working, and superscience.
In the Mage setting, everyday reality is governed by commonsense rules derived from the collective beliefs of sleepers. This is called the consensus. Most Mages' paradigms differ substantially from the consensus. When a mage performs an act of magic that does not seriously violate this commonsense version of reality, in game terms this is called coincidental magic. Magic that deviates wildly from consensus is called vulgar magic. When it is performed ineptly, or is vulgar, and especially if it is vulgar and witnessed by sleepers, magic can cause Paradox, a phenomenon in which reality tries to resolve contradictions between the consensus and the Mage's efforts. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 5:35 am Post subject: |
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| deadman wrote: |
I've always thought those type of techniques (no-touch or one-touch) rely on some sort of cooperative relationship, like a hypnotist and his willing subject. The students submit to the master's influence, and are strongly affected. Against an actual opponent, they would be far, far less effective. The second link bears that out. |
You can also draw a strong parallel here between this and faith healing. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 8:28 am Post subject: |
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| deadman wrote: |
I've always thought those type of techniques (no-touch or one-touch) rely on some sort of cooperative relationship, like a hypnotist and his willing subject. The students submit to the master's influence, and are strongly affected. Against an actual opponent, they would be far, far less effective. The second link bears that out. |
Yeah. The old coot who puts the touch of death on his students without touching them is clearly a case of people in the group acting to gain or retain acceptance. The old coot thought he had the powers, maybe he was a good kung fu teacher, and people found if they played up to his beliefs, they got better access to training or higher status in the group. Other people in the group would start to talk about the amazing power they felt coming from the old coot and if you weren't feeling the power too, maybe there was something wrong with you and you didn't belong.
The old coot came to think he had the power because maybe he began to think students tripping over their own feet was because of some force he could project. It's a bit like people who think they have some magic power that turns off street lights, because it happened a couple times randomly to them. |
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stillnotking
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Location: Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| Obviously he had some excuse. There's always an excuse. The planets weren't aligned right, or something. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Mon Apr 07, 2008 11:41 am Post subject: |
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| stillnotking wrote: |
| Obviously he had some excuse. There's always an excuse. The planets weren't aligned right, or something. |
They always do, eh?
Randi uses the "see my power failed because it was Thursday."
I failed a calculus. I abandonded the belief I could do calculus. Not sure why woo meisters don't likewise abandon their belief. Like the old coot who decided to prove he had the jubba jubba power with a doubter who was also a blackbelt. And the old coot went down like a ton of bricks after a 30 second fight. I bet ya, he still believes he can use his mental powers to fight people. The reason he lost was because the lights were affecting him or it was Tuesday or the guy he was fighting was a witch...
Here's a great one. This lady seems to believe she has the power to make people pee their pants:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ytDq-4NIXCA
Now how'd she come up with a foolish idea like that? Well, first most people probably have to see a man about a mule. But we tune out the sensation until it becomes really pressing. It's like you never think about how your socks feel on your feet until you think about it. We pay attention to novel stimuli and then when we determine it's not going to kill us, we tune it out, but we can selectively tune it back in.
So same deal with that poor lady. She was just good at getting people to notice they had to drain the snake monster. Somehow she determine, or was told, it was a power. |
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