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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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 Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 11:22 am Post subject: |
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Oh that was a typo, I know your name.
Do you still live in Korea? IF not where, and what do you do now? Is your wife Korean?
You obviously got deep into it. Do I need to actual lit study at uni to get fluent. I have not even taken classes, just book and girlfriend. I understand her a lot better than when others speak. She's a sweety, knows exactly my level and aims just slightly above it, so I'm always saying "stop, say that again" and I'll write it down. |
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Jensen
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
Location: hippie hell
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| Posted: Sun Nov 23, 2003 12:23 pm Post subject: |
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| kiwiboy_nz_99 wrote: |
Oh that was a typo, I know your name.
Do you still live in Korea? IF not where, and what do you do now? Is your wife Korean?
You obviously got deep into it. Do I need to actual lit study at uni to get fluent. I have not even taken classes, just book and girlfriend. I understand her a lot better than when others speak. She's a sweety, knows exactly my level and aims just slightly above it, so I'm always saying "stop, say that again" and I'll write it down. |
Sorry, long answer...
Not deep enough...just up to the *beep* (mammary glands) and that doesn't cut it.
We live in WA, near Portland, OR. Only been in Korea a couple of times. Wife is Korean. She doesn't want to live in Korea much unless we're stinking rich which isn't likely anytime soon. We've got a little place in the hills (cabin, workshop, bunch of old trucks and tractors...I love it) and I've just been doing whatever work comes along to keep shoes on the kids feet, etc. Planning on going to grad school in the near future. The plan is to starve to death as a translator of Korean lit...we'll see if I'm actually masochist enough to go through with it.
Started out studying on my own with Koreans I knew (got assigned to work with a Korean partner/congregation in Denver when I was a mormon missionary there in the late '80s). I read the Book of Mormon in Korean a few times (biblical language in Korean is fun...Spanish to Japanese to Korean), and studied ���� ���� (kicho munpop) which is the basic grammar text put out by THE church, written by Robert Slover II when he was a missionary in Korea. Slover was living in Denver at the time, army doc if I remember correctly, gave me a (signed!) copy of the text after months of pleading with the goddamned mission office/SLC assholes resulted in zip being sent my way. Seems like he took the old Jesuit (?) Myongdo's text format and simplified it. Good basic book. University of Hawaii press is publishing some good stuff now, saw them in a Japanese store in Portland, can't remember the title of the series.
I think this is it (not positive...anyone using it?):
Title: Integrated Korean
Authors: Young-mee Cho, Hyo Sang Lee, Carol Schulz, Ho-min Sohn, Sung-Ock Sohn
Year: 2000
Publisher: University of Hawaii Press
Volume: 1~4
Schools: Arizona, Chicago, Columbia, Florida State, George Washington, Harvard, Hawaii, Indiana, Princeton, Rutgers, Stanford, SUNY Binghamton, SUNY Buffalo, UCLA, UCSB, Yale
After a year or so of studying on my own I tested in through the 200-level courses with good scores. Had some fantastic history and Asian lit profs in Utah (BYU), but in terms of language learning didn't get much from the program...guess it maintained skills I would have lost. Except for a couple of mixed kids and Korean-Americans the classes were full of returned missionaries...kind of fun trying to keep up with those guys, and it was fun to know some stuff they didn't. Nice people, but real competitive. I Learned some hanja in college but I could have done that on my own. Way better to study language in-country and then pick up scholarly/academic creds as needed later. I think Korean language programs are generally a lot better now in the states, but I would only go that route if there were other subjects at the university I wanted/needed.
Incidentally, I know a couple of professors from my college days who are now teaching in NZ. Korean studies, or any liberal arts stuff, in the states is a hard gig. |
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2003 1:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Well, I have more humble aims, though I am serious about getting conversational. I have a Korean girlfriend and that has really picked up the pace. And I use a book called "Speaking Korean", it's good, I think it's the one the Mormons use! |
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Jensen
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
Location: hippie hell
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| Posted: Wed Nov 26, 2003 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| kiwiboy_nz_99 wrote: |
| ...And I use a book called "Speaking Korean", it's good, I think it's the one the Mormons use! |
I hope you washed it off first  |
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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| Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 10:55 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I hope you washed it off first |
What strange things do Mormons do with books that would neccessitate washing? 
It's by Francis Y.T.Park, who worked for the Myongdo Institute. Heard of it? And while I'm here, could you give me the inside deal, why are the Mormons so good at learning languages? |
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Jensen
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
Location: hippie hell
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| Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 11:32 pm Post subject: |
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| kiwiboy_nz_99 wrote: |
| ...It's by Francis Y.T.Park, who worked for the Myongdo Institute. Heard of it? And while I'm here, could you give me the inside deal, why are the Mormons so good at learning languages? |
I don't have that particular text. I've got a couple of older Myongdo's books buried someplace around here...Jesuits stuff I think? Never cared for the little intonation markings, but that basic grammar-focused format is very helpful.
I find it difficult to answer "Mormon" questions without including long-winded anecdotal tales. I doubt I can resist the temptation this time.
When I was a missionary, standardized language aptitude tests were utilized in processing mission calls. Kind of like logic games...like learning Klingon in five minutes and then taking a Klingon grammar exam, only more antiseptic. I failed mine miserably which I expect is one reason I got sent to Colorado. I got put in the Asian program eventually because that is where all the good-hearted misfits went. No one ever expected me to learn Korean, I was just supposed to support my Korean "companion."
As I was riding in the back of the mission-leader's car out to meet my new companion, one of the president's assistants tossed me a copy of the Book of Mormon in Korean. It wasn't like, oh, so that's Korean writing...it felt like it was something I HAD to learn. I don't understand this, but I felt like Korean, the writing more than the spoken language, was something I used to know but had forgotten completely. It was like I had to "re-learn" it. I'm still not expressing it correctly, but what I'm talking about is a sudden insatiable desire to know something. I was the only missionary in the program that learned Korean. I got zero support from the mission leaders, took me months to dig up some training materials on my own. I was reprimanded by several leaders (none that I gave a shit about though) for neglecting my spiritual education when if I really needed to learn Korean, god would grant me the gift of tongues.
So here's the answer to your question: Mormons believe that the "gift of tongues" is (or can be) a spiritual gift that enables a person to learn, or sometimes just suddenly speak in, a language in order to do God's work. Ignorant-types take this to mean God dumps it on your head like a bucket of water. Most the people I've met who claim to have experienced this gift agree it is more often rare moments of surprising fluency that follow dedicated hours of study and preparation.
This knowledge that you "can" do something is really half the battle. When you've got God on your side, you can't really doubt that you'll succeed. Because you'd be doubting deity.
Among missionaries there is also a lot of competitive peer pressure, the better you can "do" the language, the cooler you are. And of course, if the only conversation you can have with someone (girls!) is in Korean, there's that much more incentive to learn.
In terms of support, initially there's the two-months or so in the MTC (missionary training center) (one month marketing indoctrination in the case of English-speaking calls) where returned missonary instructors, many majoring in the language at the university, deliver practical basic lessons and drills at a precise and brisk pace. There are no distractions: girlfriends, phone calls, tv, radio, music...nothing except prayer and study. And food (supposedly laced with saltpeter) that makes you fart like you have never farted before in your life.
Last I'd heard, the church had stopped using language aptitude examinations for foreign-language placement because in the real world it appears to be a personal drive to master a language that predicts success. It was in my case. And where I have failed in a complete mastery of Korean, it has ben the result of a corresponding failure in my determination. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Mon Dec 01, 2003 11:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Jensen wrote: |
| I don't understand this, but I felt like Korean, the writing more than the spoken language, was something I used to know but had forgotten completely. It was like I had to "re-learn" it. I'm still not expressing it correctly, but what I'm talking about is a sudden insatiable desire to know something. I was the only missionary in the program that learned Korean. |
It sounds as though you had the benefit of the Urim and the Thurim. |
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Jensen
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
Location: hippie hell
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 12:22 am Post subject: |
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| dogbert wrote: |
| ...It sounds as though you had the benefit of the Urim and the Thurim. |
"Urim and Thummim"
I wish.
Got one now, it's great for browsing porn too. |
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dogbert
Joined: 29 Jan 2003
Location: Killbox 90210
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 1:24 am Post subject: |
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| Jensen wrote: |
| dogbert wrote: |
| ...It sounds as though you had the benefit of the Urim and the Thurim. |
"Urim and Thummim"
I wish.
Got one now, it's great for browsing porn too. |
Keep them away from your kids! |
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 3:24 am Post subject: |
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| What in the name of the Nazarene are Urim and Thurim? |
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Corporal
Joined: 25 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 4:44 am Post subject: |
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Maybe they're like seraphim and cherubim?
Actually I'm guessing they're people or things from the book of Mormon. |
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Pyongshin Sangja
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: I love baby!
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:23 am Post subject: |
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Ok, jensen. you are freaking me out man.
thanks |
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kiwiboy_nz_99
Joined: 05 Jul 2003
Location: ...Enlightenment...
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:34 am Post subject: |
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| Yep, thanks for freaking me out too, nobody freaks each other out these days, what's up with that? Where have all the good times gone? |
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Jensen
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
Location: hippie hell
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Corporal wrote: |
Maybe they're like seraphim and cherubim?
Actually I'm guessing they're people or things from the book of Mormon. |
Spiritual machinery...google and ye shall receive.
Hey what's up with this crap, the damn catholics got some too!!
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15224a.htm
Should we revive the Utah thread?
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Tiberious aka Sparkles
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: I'm one cool cat!
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| Posted: Tue Dec 02, 2003 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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I can't remember who mentioned it before (it was on another thread, about six months or so ago), but I put this to use, and have found it work miracles:
"Kimchi chuseyo."
I can converse in Korean fairly well, but I loathfully dislike doing so. I'm home sick today, and when two dudes rolled up looking for the guy living upstairs, I smiled brightly and said, "kimchi chuseyo! Kimchi neomu choahhaeyo!"
The look on their faces was priceless. Needless to say, they left me alone.
Sparkles*_* |
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