Korean Job Discussion Forums

[olabueno]

After reading pages and pages of this forum, I have a few questions for everyone.

I'm 29, male, 4 years exp. teaching English Lit./Reading.

It seems like the majority of the posts here are anti-hogwan, anti-Korea. Is this merely the responses from perhaps a younger, less experienced crowd. Or is Korea a truly difficult place to work?

What specifically makes Korea so inhospitable?


Most posts that begin "Why I hate Korea, Don't work here, etc." also begin by saying " O.K, I signed this shitty contract..."

So what gives Korea a bad rep.? The incoming, overwhelmed foreigner or the pushy bosses and crowded classrooms?

I realize it's prob. a bit of both, but I wan't to hear from you guys.

[ttompatz]

[Adventurer]

My friend, in our countries in the old days you would hear "You have my word". Here, you can barely even trust a contract signed with your boss in Korea. In our countries, contracts are not a suggestion. They are written promises. Also, the government doesn't really bother to enforce the law enough whether it comes to abusing Western teachers or Phillipinos and Indians working in factories. One of my friends who is dating a Phillipino has told me her boyfriend was abused, beaten, sometimes worked way too many hours. I feel for him. That's another story.

A friend of mine was listed illegaly as a business. She did not get her pension. The pension regional office didn't really want to do their job and force the employer to abide by the law and investigate. I was lucky in a city I was in that the pension person in Chungnam Province believed in doing his job and helping a foreigner out like me. Some of them are honest and do their job, but often they don't care about you or enforcing their own laws. And, we did not come here to just eat kimchee. We came here to earn a living, get our pension or whatever we are legally entitled to. Many of us old-timers on here have had to bail each other out and help many newbies who are now old-timers.

There are some good hagwons for sure and people are happy at many branches. However, someone I didn't know before contacted me for help to navigate herself into a good job, and I had to spot "land-mines". This is the norm in Korea, but not in our countries or neighboring Japan.

If you have a great hagwon or public school job in Korea, then things are fantastic, but as our embassies say we are often at risk. No matter what great things there are in Korea, and there are many nice things here, we are often at the mercy of laws that don't favor us and laws that are too often unenforced. Believe me, going to the Labour Board is not fun.
I've been there once. We hope things in Korea will improve. They have in some ways.

[caniff]

[samd]

You get an inaccurate picture from reading these boards. They are filled with bitter angry people who come here to vent.

Korea is great, and I share this opinion with most foreigners who I have met in person, if not with the whiners on Dave's.

[Adventurer]

[samd]

[samd]

Also, too much is made of the whole "Koreans don't stick to contracts" thing.

It can work out in your favour just as often as not.

If you take the time to cultivate a good relationship with your boss, you may find that he'll bend all sorts of rules for you.

Examples from my hagwons:

Pay rise after a few months in, not in the contract.

Change of housing (positive), not in the contract.

Airfare home given in cash, specifically forbidden in the contract, with an extra hundred thrown in for a nice gesture.

Cash envelopes throughout the year.

Free food at company dinners.

Cash bonus at completion of my contract.

[polonius]

olabueno,

I would agree with samd on this matter. Remember that angry, irate people always speak louder than shiny happy people. You will rarely hear people come on here and post about the great things that happened to them. "Hey, my boss did a really nice thing, he decided to pay for all the teachers's gym membership fees." or "My boss takes the whole staff out once a month for dinner and drinks"

Certainly these are minor issues, but often the gripes I read on this board are also minor issues. Yes, not getting paid is a big issue, not getting health insurance is a big issue. However, making a teacher stay for a full 8 hour day as they are contracted to, even though they only teach 4 hours, I think this is a petty complaint. Or, the school makes me come in 2 hours before my classes start so that I can prepare for my day.

As for out of work situations, I have had maybe one negative experience with a Korean, and that was because he was drunk, and he actually tried to fight myself and my other Korean friends. The positives that have occurred far outnumber the negatives. Certainly there are times that people get frustrated, and perhaps they come on this site to vent, as they don't have a social circle, as they would have at home to let their feelings out.

I love my job, I have been there for 6 years. I love my neighborhood, and have excellent neighbors who are very friendly. Is Korea a perfect place? No, but neither is Canada. Is my job perfect? No, but no job I have had to date has been.

It is all perspective. If you come with an open mind, and can be adaptable, you will have a positive experience. Yes there are crappy places to work, but do your research and you can avoid working in these places.

[daemyann]

[olabueno]

Thanks to everyone so far, keep it coming. Even if you think your gripe is petty or has already been brought up. Conversely, if you want to comment on positive exp. please do.



I'm going to read up on filial piety (sp) and Confucianism right now. It seems like the more I read, the less I understand.

[PRagic]

Lesson number one: EVERYTHING here is dictated by hierarchy, and you have to know your place. They won't tell you, 'He is better,' or 'She is higher up,' but you are expected to know it. This means that in many cases, and contrary to rules and norms in your own country, your input does not matter, your opinion is not important, and you are not able to make any decisions.

Lesson number two: You ARE defined by who you are and what you have done. Period. You are defined by who your parents are, and what they do. You are defined by what your siblings do and where they went to school. You are defined by your educational background and level. However, in Korea, most status is ascribed, not achieved. You should be modest about any personal accomplishments as Koreans will assume that you could only do such and such because of your family situation.

Lesson number three: It's ALL about face and feelings. Make someone look bad or potentially embarrass them? Bad, and they'll retaliate. How many stories have you heard on Dave's where someone, 'Tells their boss that they want to leave,' and then the boss does something terrible to them (reports them to immigration, witholds wages...). Now you know why. Doesn't make sense from most foreigner's perspective, but there you have it.

What do Koreans do? Lie. But understand that this is not perceived as so bad, because face and feelings are being maintained. So be smart. 'I have a better job offer and need to leave your employment,' becomes, 'My brother is having his foot amputated, and I have to be there for him to lean on.'

Lesson number four: Largely based on lessons one through three, you need to know that 'loyalty' and 'respect' as they are understood in Western culture only run one way here, and that is 'UP'. You respect and are loyal to your superior. They, on the other hand, can make you work longer hours, demand that you sacrifice for the good of the company, and ensure that you feel guilty in the event that you for 'gasp' any reason place your personal life ahead of your work life. On the other hand, the boss is to be showered with praise for paying you. If hard times should befall the organization, though, know that you should understand your boss's difficulty, or the position of the company, and sacrifice accordingly. Sound weird or unfair? That's cool. It's not your culture.

Lesson number five: This is a group oriented culture. People do things in groups, and are expected to sacrifice personal preferences to ensure that everyone can participate in group activities and maintain group norms. People tend to dress in trends and worry about the percieved image of the group. Your body piercings, long hair, and the fact that you don't own a suit do not make you 'unique' or 'cool', they make you look like someone who cannot be part of the group. If by necessity you must be included, it means that you are further down the hierarchy pole (see Lesson number one). Insisting on your individuality here is a sure sign that you weren't cut out to live overseas and aclimate to a foreign culture.

In fact, there are a ton of Westerners over here who live and thrive in Korea. Why? Either they know the deal with regards to the above lessons, or they are content to live on the fringe here. They are ok with not being included, they are ok with not having the potential to climb the hierarchy, and, most importantly, they keep their mouths shut about it so that they don't make their Korean coworkers lose face.

[captain kirk]

Damn that's a hot post. Ought to be written in calligraphy on parchment and framed. Or put on a microchip and inserted behind every dog's ear^^

[Young FRANKenstein]

[laogaiguk]