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Zapp Brannigan
Joined: 07 Apr 2008
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 Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 8:22 pm Post subject: Is it standard to pay for your own return airfare? |
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| As I was ironing out the details for a 1 year contract w/ my would-be employer, I was informed that it was my responsibility to pay for my return airfare. According to them, it is standard for the recruiter to front the cost of the ticket to SK and to be reimbursed by the school. Apparently it is also std for the teacher to pay for the return leg all on his/her own. Is this correct? I have seen several sample contracts vary in this regard. I have a good feeling about this school & I don't want to take an intractable position if it is not the status quo to pay or reimburse for the all the airfare. |
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xCustomx
Joined: 06 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| The school should pay for your ticket here and back, provided you complete the one year contract. If you bail before 6 months then you'll probably have to pay the school back for your ticket here. |
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mnhnhyouh
Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Location: The Middle Kingdom
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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Some employers want the new teacher to cover the cost on the way here, and then get reimbursed. They have had experience of people arriving and then just heading off on their own. Getting a free airfare to Korea.
I guess if you are a North American or European with few scruples and wanted to get to China it would be a cheap way, just buy yourself a ticket Seoul -> Beijing. You would not even have to clear customs.
h |
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PGF
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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| absolutely NOT. who is the as shole recruiter so others can avoid him? |
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cruisemonkey
Joined: 04 Jul 2005
Location: Hopefully, the same place as my luggage.
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| Posted: Sat Apr 12, 2008 10:55 pm Post subject: Re: Is it standard to pay for your own return airfare? |
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| Zapp Brannigan wrote: |
| ... Apparently it is also std for the teacher to pay for the return leg all on his/her own. Is this correct? |
No, no and no!
Something is drastically wrong if a recruiter is telling you this. Shop around. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:24 am Post subject: |
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Yeah, that's super wrong. I know my school when they were looking for a replacement was asking me about the wisdom of deleting the severance and airfare portions of the contract and I explained to them in the strongest, but politest terms, that that was only a sound idea if they wanted to wait five years to find a 65 year old divorced alcoholic who MIGHT take the job for 3 months before dying of alcohol poisoning after trying to kidnap a child.
Do you intend to stay for a single year? Being a successful ESL teacher is knowing which battles to pick, what to compromise on, and what to stand firm on. Also, it's reading your contract, understanding what is laid out, and being able to live with that. A beautiful contract that a boss won't honor isn't quite as desirable as a school that provides a good apartment, a good work environment, good hours, checks that clear on time, and a whitey wrangler who can help you get set up and fix what's needed in your apartment.
If you really like what you see, but the airfare is a sticking point, and you really feel like you might be spending more than a year, I'd come back with a counter offer:
"I realize a foreigner teacher is an expensive proposition and the return airfare makes it more costly. Having to fly a new teacher home every year makes it only more costly. However, at this point, I intend to spend at least two years in Korea. So, I will make this counter offer: if I remain with your school for only one year, I will be responsible for my own airfare home, if I remain for 2 years, the school will pay."
(Also make sure the contract stipulates the severance pay and that it's paid yearly upon completion of the contract. Have it stipulate which paycheck as well.) |
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ontheway
Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Location: Somewhere under the rainbow...
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:28 am Post subject: |
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How much is a return ticket worth to you? Just estimate its value, divide by 12, and make sure that your monthly salary is higher than a typical contract by that much.
If you need 1.2 million to get home, then you should ask for an extra 100,000 won on top of a 2.2 million minimum base.
You should adjust the above numbers for what you think your minimum base pay should be and what your return ticket will be.
You should check out other things as well: tax rate, pension, health ins., housing, A/C etc.
Many things may or may not be in your contract. You have to determine the value of the whole package. There is no law requiring that a school pay your airfare. It is the custom, however. |
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Whistleblower
Joined: 03 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 5:29 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
Yeah, that's super wrong. I know my school when they were looking for a replacement was asking me about the wisdom of deleting the severance and airfare portions of the contract and I explained to them in the strongest, but politest terms, that that was only a sound idea if they wanted to wait five years to find a 65 year old divorced alcoholic who MIGHT take the job for 3 months before dying of alcohol poisoning after trying to kidnap a child.
Do you intend to stay for a single year? Being a successful ESL teacher is knowing which battles to pick, what to compromise on, and what to stand firm on. Also, it's reading your contract, understanding what is laid out, and being able to live with that. A beautiful contract that a boss won't honor isn't quite as desirable as a school that provides a good apartment, a good work environment, good hours, checks that clear on time, and a whitey wrangler who can help you get set up and fix what's needed in your apartment.
If you really like what you see, but the airfare is a sticking point, and you really feel like you might be spending more than a year, I'd come back with a counter offer:
"I realize a foreigner teacher is an expensive proposition and the return airfare makes it more costly. Having to fly a new teacher home every year makes it only more costly. However, at this point, I intend to spend at least two years in Korea. So, I will make this counter offer: if I remain with your school for only one year, I will be responsible for my own airfare home, if I remain for 2 years, the school will pay."
(Also make sure the contract stipulates the severance pay and that it's paid yearly upon completion of the contract. Have it stipulate which paycheck as well.) |
Wise words. |
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oskinny1
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Location: Right behind you!
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| Whistleblower wrote: |
| mindmetoo wrote: |
Yeah, that's super wrong. I know my school when they were looking for a replacement was asking me about the wisdom of deleting the severance and airfare portions of the contract and I explained to them in the strongest, but politest terms, that that was only a sound idea if they wanted to wait five years to find a 65 year old divorced alcoholic who MIGHT take the job for 3 months before dying of alcohol poisoning after trying to kidnap a child.
Do you intend to stay for a single year? Being a successful ESL teacher is knowing which battles to pick, what to compromise on, and what to stand firm on. Also, it's reading your contract, understanding what is laid out, and being able to live with that. A beautiful contract that a boss won't honor isn't quite as desirable as a school that provides a good apartment, a good work environment, good hours, checks that clear on time, and a whitey wrangler who can help you get set up and fix what's needed in your apartment.
If you really like what you see, but the airfare is a sticking point, and you really feel like you might be spending more than a year, I'd come back with a counter offer:
"I realize a foreigner teacher is an expensive proposition and the return airfare makes it more costly. Having to fly a new teacher home every year makes it only more costly. However, at this point, I intend to spend at least two years in Korea. So, I will make this counter offer: if I remain with your school for only one year, I will be responsible for my own airfare home, if I remain for 2 years, the school will pay."
(Also make sure the contract stipulates the severance pay and that it's paid yearly upon completion of the contract. Have it stipulate which paycheck as well.) |
Wise words. |
I am not so sure. Don't a lot of schools provide round trip airfare after your contract if you sign on for another year? If this is the case then you are giving up a free round trip ticket.
I'd tell them (the recruiter) that you are interested in a school that isn't trying to short change its teachers before they even get into the country. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| oskinny1 wrote: |
I am not so sure. Don't a lot of schools provide round trip airfare after your contract if you sign on for another year? If this is the case then you are giving up a free round trip ticket.
I'd tell them (the recruiter) that you are interested in a school that isn't trying to short change its teachers before they even get into the country. |
You sort of missed a lot of what I said. Any school can promise you the world, not many Korean bosses will honor it. What you call "short change" might be better explained by a school simply unfamiliar with what a foreign teacher needs. Hence, first approach the situation by trying to leverage your actual goal (spend 2-3 years in Korea) as a possible "reward" point, making the Korean boss think he's getting something.
My school was a sweet life but they also had some odd ideas. I was always the only foreign teacher there. They usually reacted with surprise when I wanted something in my contract that was not what a Korean teacher got (vacation, my apartment appliances repaired, my severance pay). You can react to this surprise initially as your school trying to rip you off, or you can first assume its your Korean owners with zero english ability to read an english contract going "what? what?"
You can enforce your contract or the norms by playing hardball or you can first approach them as rational people who are just unfamiliar with a foreigners needs.
For example, a lot of schools provide an apartment within walking distance of the school. Some don't. Some actually have the gall to make their FT commute 10 minutes.
But if everything else the school offers meets your needs, well, a bird in the hand. Lots of people here have schools that will pay their airfare home but also hated every minute of life at their school. Small comfort. |
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tommo123456789
Joined: 31 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 2:11 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
For example, a lot of schools provide an apartment within walking distance of the school. Some don't. Some actually have the gall to make their FT commute 10 minutes.
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The only way my commute is 10 minutes is if I just happen to walk to the bus station and the bus is there at that exact moment, and there is no traffic on the way. It's a 30 minute walk for me both ways.
But to the answer the question.. One of the selling points for me is that the airfare was paid here and back. |
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oskinny1
Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Location: Right behind you!
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 6:28 pm Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| oskinny1 wrote: |
I am not so sure. Don't a lot of schools provide round trip airfare after your contract if you sign on for another year? If this is the case then you are giving up a free round trip ticket.
I'd tell them (the recruiter) that you are interested in a school that isn't trying to short change its teachers before they even get into the country. |
You sort of missed a lot of what I said. Any school can promise you the world, not many Korean bosses will honor it. What you call "short change" might be better explained by a school simply unfamiliar with what a foreign teacher needs. Hence, first approach the situation by trying to leverage your actual goal (spend 2-3 years in Korea) as a possible "reward" point, making the Korean boss think he's getting something.
My school was a sweet life but they also had some odd ideas. I was always the only foreign teacher there. They usually reacted with surprise when I wanted something in my contract that was not what a Korean teacher got (vacation, my apartment appliances repaired, my severance pay). You can react to this surprise initially as your school trying to rip you off, or you can first assume its your Korean owners with zero english ability to read an english contract going "what? what?"
You can enforce your contract or the norms by playing hardball or you can first approach them as rational people who are just unfamiliar with a foreigners needs.
For example, a lot of schools provide an apartment within walking distance of the school. Some don't. Some actually have the gall to make their FT commute 10 minutes.
But if everything else the school offers meets your needs, well, a bird in the hand. Lots of people here have schools that will pay their airfare home but also hated every minute of life at their school. Small comfort. |
I do see what you are saying, but I disagree that you should have to be rewarded as opposed to just getting what many other schools will provide as customary.
At least when other schools "promise you the world" there is a chance you will get it, but if it is not even mentioned, good luck getting it. Each person needs to pick their battles, this would be one I would pick. |
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bellum99
Joined: 23 Jan 2003
Location: don't need to know
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:03 pm Post subject: |
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No.� You all make no sense.� The headhunter knows full well he has to pay for the return airfare.� The school knows this too, because the headhunter knows it.� They are already trying to cheat the OP before he even gets here.� This is a giant huge red flag saying don't take this job!!!.Every single person here who said its okay...you deserve what happens.� Make sure the contract says exactly what it should or don't sign anything.� The contract is the only thing, that even a little bit, protects you.�
***� He hasn't even been to the school.� He doesn't know that it is good.� It just "sounds" good.� Every single owner makes their school sound like heaven until you get here and the rape you all the time.
***� Who said promise them two years for one return ticket??� Someone should slap you in the head.
*** How much do you want to bet there is no pension in that contract?���
If every newbie comes on here and gets the advice I read...no wonder we always gets screwed.� The OP needs to read his contract or post it here for us to read.� There are probably a lot of things in it that are not okay. |
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DongtanTony
Joined: 22 Feb 2008
Location: Bundang
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:26 pm Post subject: |
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No upfront roundtrip airfare = the job isn't worth your time.
Standard for the teacher to pay.......no way......just look at other job advertisements.......the vast majority say pre-paid airfare. |
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Dome Vans
Guest
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| Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 11:51 pm Post subject: |
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| DongtanTony wrote: |
No upfront roundtrip airfare = the job isn't worth your time.
Standard for the teacher to pay.......no way......just look at other job advertisements.......the vast majority say pre-paid airfare. |
Agree. One of the ways that Koreans get teachers to teach here are: free housing, free round trip airfare, pension rebates etc. Almost all adverts have the roundtrip airfare to entice people. Not having it is just dumb, who's going to take a job without it?
I agree with Bellum as well. If they're not supplying this then the rest of the contract will be laced with cr*p as well, especially with regards to pension.
A decent contract will have the round trip airfare included. A two week break between contracts if you renew, where they provide with a ticket home and holiday for that time. OR if you don't take the flight home between contracts then they'll pay you the cost of the ticket as a bonus. Then you will receive the flight home at the end of the contract. It will also be well worded. |
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