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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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 Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:34 am Post subject: |
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Bacasper wrote
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| JMO wrote: |
pedophilia is not related to homosexuality.
It is nothing to do with gay priests. They are pedophiles who were sheltered by bishops because of a twisted brand of loyalty. Not because they were or were not homosexual.
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I find it telling that when a swim coach abuses his girl students, we don;t mention his hetrosexuality as somehow being a factor. He is a pedophile, plain and simple. However when it is boys...well obviously its those frustrated gays. Homophobia..plain and simple. |
You are, at best, only half right. Homosexual pedophilia is related to homosexuality just as heterosexuality is related to heterosexual pedophilia.
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Yes..but the heterosexual element of heterosexual pedophilia is almost never mentioned, whereas people are quick to stress the gay elements in a different case. My point essentially is...a gay man when sexually frustrated is not going to molest children, no more than you or I(I'm presuming you are straight also) would. We would look for women. He would look for men. In that sense homosexuality is not related to pedophilia as it does not lead to it. In my opinion that was what Nicholas was alluding to.. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 6:35 am Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| If you were locked in a room for 24 hours and forced to watch coprophilic pornography, and did not have a coprophilic predisposition to begin with, you would not walk out the next day and start eating shit sandwiches. |
Does this room have a toilet? |
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stillnotking
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
Location: Oregon, USA
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:46 am Post subject: |
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| I give the Pope credit for saying unambiguously that homosexuality and pedophilia are two different things. But this "yeah, we had pedophile priests but LOOK OVER THERE YOUR CULTURE IS PORNOGRAPHIC" stuff is just crap. Pedophilia in the priesthood isn't modern and isn't limited to any particular culture. Is it so surprising that pedophiles would gravitate to a profession that gives them access to children along with a presumption of ethical behavior? The Church needs to have much tighter standards and more scrutiny of applicants to the priesthood, and that's really the bottom line. |
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Czarjorge
Joined: 01 May 2007
Location: I now have the same moustache, and it is glorious.
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:37 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
I don't think Ratzinger really understands the full drama, circumstances, and damage the scandal has done to the institution here.
BTW, Czarjorge, he served with the Hitlerjugend when all young males of his age were required to do so. |
Ever hear the Jesuit motto: "Give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man"?
You can never entirely shed the programming you receive as a child. |
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Justin Hale
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Location: the Straight Talk Express
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 4:58 pm Post subject: |
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Hitchens hands the Pope his ass here: http://www.slate.com/id/2188971/
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Why is the Vatican continuing to shelter Cardinal Bernard Law?
It will be remembered that Law resigned his position as head of the Archdiocese of Boston in late 2002. He had little alternative. A series of lawsuits and depositions and disclosures had established beyond doubt that, as my Slate colleague Dahlia Lithwick phrased it, "Law was not only aware of egregious sexual misconduct among his subordinates but was apparently engaged in elaborate efforts to cover up incident after incident of child rape."
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(in case you think I'm spamming this in two threads, I put it in the other one by accident - it concerned homosexuality and not pedophilia - and as such I deleted it  ) |
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endo
Joined: 14 Mar 2004
Location: Seoul...my home
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:00 pm Post subject: |
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| JMO wrote: |
BECAUSE HE BELIEVES IN GOD AND BELIEVES GOD TOLD HIM TO JOIN THE PRIESTHOOD.
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Well I would also think some gay men would enter the priesthood as an escape.
Like I said before, they lilely grew up in a religious household where homosexuality was unacceptable. Therefore because of their fear, guilt, and inibality to marry a woman, they went into to the church as a refuge.
Listen, I'm not gay so I don't know for sure. But this idea makes sense. I don't deny that there was a religious calling, however, I believe these repressed sexual desires along with the guilt was the impitious for this calling.
Secondly, let's keep it real here. While pedophilia is not accepted in the gay community. Ephebophilia to an extent is.
Lastly, you are correct in that we shouldn't be ficusing all of our attention on the supposed gay priests. There were heterosexual ones as well who went after teenage girls.
I would however, like to see some statistics on the victims in terms of age and sex. We could get a clearer picture that way. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Czarjorge wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
I don't think Ratzinger really understands the full drama, circumstances, and damage the scandal has done to the institution here.
BTW, Czarjorge, he served with the Hitlerjugend when all young males of his age were required to do so. |
Ever hear the Jesuit motto: "Give me a child until he is seven and I will give you the man"?
You can never entirely shed the programming you receive as a child. |
Yeah, I studied under the Jesuits for a few years. But I was never 'touched' by their homilies. |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 5:40 pm Post subject: |
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| endo wrote: |
| JMO wrote: |
BECAUSE HE BELIEVES IN GOD AND BELIEVES GOD TOLD HIM TO JOIN THE PRIESTHOOD.
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Well I would also think some gay men would enter the priesthood as an escape.
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Maybe. It does not however follow that their motivation in joining was to have sex with children. Or that their sexual frustration would lead to pedophilia.
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Like I said before, they lilely grew up in a religious household where homosexuality was unacceptable. Therefore because of their fear, guilt, and inibality to marry a woman, they went into to the church as a refuge.
Listen, I'm not gay so I don't know for sure. But this idea makes sense. I don't deny that there was a religious calling, however, I believe these repressed sexual desires along with the guilt was the impitious for this calling.
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Again, this is possible. But again it does not follow that they would then have sex with boys. Heterosexual priests would be in same position. Now unless you had an unfounded belief that homosexuals are more likely to have sex with boys(than heterosexuals are to have sex with girls) then...
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| Secondly, let's keep it real here. While pedophilia is not accepted in the gay community. Ephebophilia to an extent is. |
Ah. link please. It may be a common conception that it is acceptable in the gay community, but there are lots of common conceptions about the gay community.
Also these gay priests in your example were not part of a gay community. They did not have such a community as they came from a community from which they escaped as it was not receptive to gay men. For your example to hold up, gay men would have to be more likely to have sex with adolescents for some innate reason. Please back that up also.
Also in my experience(I and every male member of my family was an altar boy), you become an altar boy at 9 or 10 and leave when you are 12-14. This is squarely in pedophilia territory. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| ED209 wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| If you were locked in a room for 24 hours and forced to watch coprophilic pornography, and did not have a coprophilic predisposition to begin with, you would not walk out the next day and start eating shit sandwiches. |
Does this room have a toilet? |
ROFLMAO  |
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greedy_bones
Joined: 01 Jul 2007
Location: not quite sure anymore
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
| but the underlying causes of pedophilia probably do include things like child pornography and societies that let kids be exposed to degraded portrayals of sex in the mass media. |
So, children were molested because they were horny after seeing a lot of sex in the mass media??? |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:09 pm Post subject: |
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| JMO wrote: |
| endo wrote: |
| JMO wrote: |
BECAUSE HE BELIEVES IN GOD AND BELIEVES GOD TOLD HIM TO JOIN THE PRIESTHOOD.
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Well I would also think some gay men would enter the priesthood as an escape.
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Maybe. It does not however follow that their motivation in joining was to have sex with children. Or that their sexual frustration would lead to pedophilia.
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Like I said before, they lilely grew up in a religious household where homosexuality was unacceptable. Therefore because of their fear, guilt, and inibality to marry a woman, they went into to the church as a refuge.
Listen, I'm not gay so I don't know for sure. But this idea makes sense. I don't deny that there was a religious calling, however, I believe these repressed sexual desires along with the guilt was the impitious for this calling. |
Again, this is possible. But again it does not follow that they would then have sex with boys. Heterosexual priests would be in same position. Now unless you had an unfounded belief that homosexuals are more likely to have sex with boys(than heterosexuals are to have sex with girls) then...
| Quote: |
| Secondly, let's keep it real here. While pedophilia is not accepted in the gay community. Ephebophilia to an extent is. |
Ah. link please. It may be a common conception that it is acceptable in the gay community, but there are lots of common conceptions about the gay community.
Also these gay priests in your example were not part of a gay community. They did not have such a community as they came from a community from which they escaped as it was not receptive to gay men. For your example to hold up, gay men would have to be more likely to have sex with adolescents for some innate reason. Please back that up also.
Also in my experience(I and every male member of my family was an altar boy), you become an altar boy at 9 or 10 and leave when you are 12-14. This is squarely in pedophilia territory. |
Dr. Fred Berlin, former Director of the Sexual Disorders Clinic at Johns Hopkins Hospital, and a Dr. Peterson who was both a priest and psychiatrist have studied offending priests. Dr. Berlin stated that he never once had one of them say he entered the priesthood to be around children. Some of them did admit to some taboo sexual longings and thought that by entering the priesthood they would be able to manage them. Another subset of the population was found to have been brought up in very morally strict households where any mention of sexuality was considered taboo.
Last edited by bacasper on Fri Apr 18, 2008 11:59 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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JMO
Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Location: Daegu
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| Posted: Fri Apr 18, 2008 8:14 pm Post subject: |
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I'd be interested in a link if you have one for that. What you said doesn't mention homosexuality.
Nor does it address the idea previously stated that homosexuals are more likely to have sex with adolescents.
all in all, not sure why you quoted what I said, before posting that as you don't seem to be specifically talking about what I said. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sat Apr 19, 2008 10:03 am Post subject: |
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Berlin spoke on NPR's All Things Considered on March 8, 2002. Listen to it here. It's about the 3rd or 4th story in.
I posted it to agree with you here:
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| It does not however follow that their motivation in joining was to have sex with children. Or that their sexual frustration would lead to pedophilia. |
But I must disagree with you when you say:
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| Now unless you had an unfounded belief that homosexuals are more likely to have sex with boys(than heterosexuals are to have sex with girls) then... |
All of the paraphilias are more common in males than females. There are biological, embryological, and psychodynamic reasons for this. It may well also be true of homosexuality (I suspect it is) although there are no good data on it. |
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