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cdninkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:44 pm Post subject: "Please Use The Illegal Book" |
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I'm working two jobs, the latter one being an after school program at an elementary school in the afternoon. The main book we're using for all classes is the Let's Go series, which is a pretty good book. We're also supposed to use a listening book. The problem is that, while everyone bought the Let's Go book, no one has bought the listening book. Instead photocopies were made, with the pages stapled, and distributed to the students. Unlike them, I respect copyright laws; I don't buy illegal movies, download illegal music, or condone photocopying books 60 times plus.
So I refused to teach it, for two reasons: 1) it's illegal, and 2) it sets a bad example to the children.
Also, the Let's Go book is enough to fill a semester up, and another book will only result in me not being able to go into the Let's Go book in as much depth as I would like.
Of course, the manager still wants me to teach with it. Here's how the discussion went:
Her: "The parents want you to use the book"
Me: "Then they should buy it."
Her: "They can't afford it."
Me: "Then they can't have it! It would be one thing if I needed it, but I don't; the Let's Go book is enough."
Her: "Oh come on, it's okay. It's not a big deal."
Me: "Really? Then let's ask the publisher. If they say it's okay, then it is. Otherwise it's illegal."
Her: "Sometimes in life you have to make exceptions."
Me: "True. But this is not one of those times. Not when it's illegal and sets a bad example to the students."
And so on... what surprises me is that, so far anyway, they haven't ordered me to teach from it; just asking and pleading.
Anyway, what do you think? |
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Darkness
Joined: 12 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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I think I would use the book, and I wouldn't give a rats ass about it.
There are two people in this discussion, the Lars Ulrich group, and the rest of us....I download as fast as my bandwidth will let me, then I sleep like god damn baby.... |
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Fishead soup
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| You haven't seen the public school textbooks designed by Korean teachers. The Supervisors always wait until the last minute to inform the teachers they have yo submit a chapter. As a result there are pages from The Oxford Picture Dictionary, Side By Side and Interchange all photo copied in the book. |
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Yu_Bum_suk
Joined: 25 Dec 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:53 pm Post subject: Re: "Please Use The Illegal Book" |
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| cdninkorea wrote: |
I'm working two jobs, the latter one being an after school program at an elementary school in the afternoon. The main book we're using for all classes is the Let's Go series, which is a pretty good book. We're also supposed to use a listening book. The problem is that, while everyone bought the Let's Go book, no one has bought the listening book. Instead photocopies were made, with the pages stapled, and distributed to the students. Unlike them, I respect copyright laws; I don't buy illegal movies, download illegal music, or condone photocopying books 60 times plus.
So I refused to teach it, for two reasons: 1) it's illegal, and 2) it sets a bad example to the children.
Also, the Let's Go book is enough to fill a semester up, and another book will only result in me not being able to go into the Let's Go book in as much depth as I would like.
Of course, the manager still wants me to teach with it. Here's how the discussion went:
Her: "The parents want you to use the book"
Me: "Then they should buy it."
Her: "They can't afford it."
Me: "Then they can't have it! It would be one thing if I needed it, but I don't; the Let's Go book is enough."
Her: "Oh come on, it's okay. It's not a big deal."
Me: "Really? Then let's ask the publisher. If they say it's okay, then it is. Otherwise it's illegal."
Her: "Sometimes in life you have to make exceptions."
Me: "True. But this is not one of those times. Not when it's illegal and sets a bad example to the students."
And so on... what surprises me is that, so far anyway, they haven't ordered me to teach from it; just asking and pleading.
Anyway, what do you think? |
You've got to be shitting me. I've made 100 photocopies of textbooks at times. I've mixed and matched different parts of different textbooks to make hand-outs. I don't know how I'd do it any other way, in fact. |
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Easter Clark
Joined: 18 Nov 2007
Location: Hiding from Yie Eun-woong
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 8:59 pm Post subject: |
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I'm toying with the idea of making a "textbook" for my students which will have several different "sources," i.e. Unit 1 will consist of Chapter 7 from Touchstone with the Chapter 2 workbook pages from Interchange Intro, as well as a few things I've made for each unit and some Oxford Picture Dictionary pages. My coteacher said if the publishers ever found out, they'd sue the school. Not trying to hijack here, but would anyone else have problems doing this?
Darkness--I feel ya on the downloads. Korea is King when it comes to TV and Movie torrents!  |
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KYC
Joined: 11 May 2006
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:16 pm Post subject: |
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Are you serious?
I'm working at a rural elementary and the kids are very poor. The school is very cheap but not that cheap. I have lots of books (but only 1 of each). I have been making photocopies since day 1. I have no qualms about it. |
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crescent
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: yes.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Illegal. Too funny. |
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cdninkorea
Joined: 27 Jan 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:29 pm Post subject: |
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What you guys/gals are doing is wrong. Property rights form the foundation in a free society, and intellectual property is part of that.
You wouldn't want others to use the product of your hard work without just compensation; why is it okay for you to do it? |
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tselem
Joined: 24 Apr 2006
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:42 pm Post subject: Re: "Please Use The Illegal Book" |
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| cdninkorea wrote: |
| Anyway, what do you think? |
This is an ethical conflict. They see it as ethical. You see it as unethical. They are asking you (knowingly or not) to compromise your ethics. I am inclined to believe they are doing so out of ignorance of your ethical stance. (Most people are oblivious to issues surrounding copyrights.)
I would suggest explaining this to them. They might not understand though, and that would place you in a tough spot. They may equally perceive you as not being loyal for refusing to do this. (As I have read, generally Koreans value loyalty over honesty. And seeing how they probably view copying a book as 'petty,' then this is a possibility.)
Another option is to find a compromise where you can teach the book without making photocopies. |
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Been There, Taught That
Joined: 10 Apr 2007
Location: Mungyeong: not a village, not yet a metroplex.
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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The first hagwon I ever worked at presented me with a textbook billed as having been written by the director himself. Being a newbie, it took me a little to realize that every page was a photocopy he had made from published texts and stuck into book form, calling it 'his' text. Even had his name on the whole schmiel. The Korean staff was very proud of it.
He was one of those retiring types, never seen but always felt through his assistant. What'd I care, the pay was never a minute late. |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 9:53 pm Post subject: Re: "Please Use The Illegal Book" |
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| cdninkorea wrote: |
they haven't ordered me to teach from it; just asking and pleading.
Anyway, what do you think? |
If you don't need the book, don't teach it.
If the other book is enough, use it exclusively.
The parents didn't fork money out for the second book, so they can't complain that you aren't using it. (Well, they CAN, but it doesn't exactly hold any weight with me) |
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aarontendo
Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Location: Daegu-ish
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:14 pm Post subject: |
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Eh I see what ya mean about it, I'm not really big on the idea of breaking copyright either.
However, in the case of education I might cut them a little slack. If you think that it's going to help these kids learn, then I would go ahead and just do it. It's different if the parents are well to do and all I guess. I know my kids out here aren't from well off families so for me I'd just do it. |
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Fishead soup
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:15 pm Post subject: Re: "Please Use The Illegal Book" |
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| Young FRANKenstein wrote: |
| cdninkorea wrote: |
they haven't ordered me to teach from it; just asking and pleading.
Anyway, what do you think? |
If you don't need the book, don't teach it.
If the other book is enough, use it exclusively.
The parents didn't fork money out for the second book, so they can't complain that you aren't using it. (Well, they CAN, but it doesn't exactly hold any weight with me) |
I teach the book. The other day I had a twenty minute dialogue with the book. |
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genezorm
Joined: 01 Jul 2007
Location: Mokpo
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Been There, Taught That wrote: |
The first hagwon I ever worked at presented me with a textbook billed as having been written by the director himself. Being a newbie, it took me a little to realize that every page was a photocopy he had made from published texts and stuck into book form, calling it 'his' text. Even had his name on the whole schmiel. The Korean staff was very proud of it.
He was one of those retiring types, never seen but always felt through his assistant. What'd I care, the pay was never a minute late. |
True that, I am sure a lot of schools do that. One school I worked at pretty much just photocopied an entire series of texts, put the school logo and the owner's name on them. I "borrowed" a few of the different ones, and if they tried to screw me over i would send them to the publisher of the original text with the school's address. Although, I don't know if anything would have happened, as copyright laws in Korea are enforced about as strictly as prostitution. |
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Easter Clark
Joined: 18 Nov 2007
Location: Hiding from Yie Eun-woong
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| Posted: Sun Apr 20, 2008 10:48 pm Post subject: |
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| genezorm wrote: |
True that, I am sure a lot of schools do that. One school I worked at pretty much just photocopied an entire series of texts, put the school logo and the owner's name on them. I "borrowed" a few of the different ones, and if they tried to screw me over i would send them to the publisher of the original text with the school's address. Although, I don't know if anything would have happened, as copyright laws in Korea are enforced about as strictly as prostitution. |
See, that's just wrong! If you're gonna pirate something, at least give credit to the original source--don't people have standards anymore?! 
Oh, re: putting together one's own "book" to use at PS, I talked to my handler and told him I wanted to make a "handout packet" for the year, which would give credit to the publishers. He's still not sure, but I think he'll come around. It would make not having a set text to work from doable. |
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