Korean Job Discussion Forums

[ttompatz]

This is a repost of 2 of my oft repeated rants about recruiters and schools/contracts.

For old hats, there is nothing new.
For newbies - a nickel's (3 pence) worth of free advice.

IF you think this is too long to read, you probably shouldn't be coming here or thinking about working in Korea cause you will probably get burned in more ways than you can imagine.

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POST 1:

Really, when it comes to a recruiter, who cares?

A recruiter is nothing more than an introduction to an employer.

REPEAT: A recruiter is nothing more than an introduction to an employer.

Hello Mr. English speaker this is Mr Hakwon owner.
Mr. hakwon owner, this is Mr. English speaker.
Mr. English speaker, here is the contract. Please read and sign.
School, here is the signed contract. Pay me.
Good bye.

-You are not paying them anything (or you shouldn't be).
-THEY DO NOT WORK FOR YOU! - They work for the school.
-They owe you nothing once you get here.
-They are not your friend.
-They are not your baby sitter.
-They cannot help you if things go to *beep* after you get here.

Beyond that it is YOUR responsibility to check the school out.

Do NOT trust ANY recruiter. They are like used car salesmen. They will lie and sell their soul to get the signature on the contract.

Do your own DUE DILLIGENCE in regards to the school or get burned.

Use the recruiters for what they are. Use more than one and keep going until you get what you want. There is no rush and there is certainly no shortage of jobs.

When it comes to the school - again - repeat - Do your own DUE DILLIGENCE.

1st - READ the contract over very carefully. If that doesn't scare you away then...

The best you can do is minimize the risk by talking to MORE THAN ONE of the foreign staff and ask POINTED AND SPECIFIC QUESTIONS (*when the boss is NOT listening over their shoulder). Don't accept non-specific answers and broad generalizations.

No foreign staff references to talk (directly and via e-mail) to = walk away now.

Accept NO EXCUSES for any reason.

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POST 2

Do your own DUE DILLIGENCE in regards to the school or get burned.

There is no rush and there is certainly no shortage of jobs.

When it comes to the school - again - repeat - Do your own DUE DILLIGENCE.

1st - READ the contract over very carefully. If that doesn't scare you away then...

The best you can do is minimize the risk by talking to MORE THAN ONE of the foreign staff and ask POINTED AND SPECIFIC QUESTIONS (*when the boss is NOT listening over their shoulder). Don't accept non-specific answers and broad generalizations.

No foreign staff references to talk to = walk away now.
Accept NO EXCUSES for any reason.

The hard questions to ask AND get acceptable answers to ARE:

-What are the hours? (start time / stop time / breaks).

-How many classes per day, week, month? NOT hour many hours per month. 30 classroom hours can mean anything from 1350 -1800 minutes per week standing in front of the class. The difference can be up to 7.5 HOURS in front of the class EACH WEEK.

-Do they ALWAYS pay on time? (no=red flag 1)

-Do they pay at the end of your month or do they have a hold back period (5-10 days after your month end) to prevent runners? (no=red flag 2)

-Do they really pay overtime or avoid it with creative book keeping? (no=red flag 3)

-Do you get credit for classes on the national holidays or do you get the day off but still have to work your 120 hours before you get overtime? (no=red flag 4)

-Do they have national medical (with the little booklet)? (no=red flag 5)

-Do they pay into pension? (no=red flag 6) These two are legal requirements (not optional) and are usually NOT complied with (to your detriment).

-What about the holidays? 10 or more WORKING days? (legal requirement here) (no=red flag 7)

-When and how do you get your holidays?

-What extra stuff do you really have to do - mentioned or not in the contract.

-Then consider the quality of life issues - things that are important to you that aren't mentioned here (housing, furnishings, THE BATHROOM, access to recreational facilities, shopping, banking).
Do they take additional deposits in addition to the delay in payday? (yes=red flag Cool

I would also like to mention for comparison:

My co-worker who is a green as grass, fresh of the boat newbie gets a base salary of 2.1 mil per month for 22 classes of 40 minutes each.
She gets 20k won for each 40 minute class over 22 per week and works from 8:30-4:30 each day. She usually averages 26 classes per week and her salary works out to about 2.5 mil per month.

She also gets (as required by law and ignored by most hakwons) NHIC medical, pension, severance, non-shared housing, airfare and 4 weeks annual PAID vacation.

Do NOT be in a rush to sign anything. There is NO rush or urgency in spite of what you may have been told.

Take your time. The job (or more likely a better one) will still be there next week and probably next month too.

There are 30,000+ openings in Korea each year and less than 20,000 applicants to fill those jobs each year.

I hope that has been of some help.

.
8888

[drunkenfud]

Should be a sticky.

[Aussiekimchi]

Hello Mr. English speaker this is Mr Hakwon owner.
Mr. hakwon owner, this is Mr. English speaker.
Mr. English speaker, here is the contract. Please read and sign.
School, here is the signed contract. Pay me.
Good bye.

Excellent! Is this all I have to do?

Life just got a lot easier.

[oskinny1]

[hagwonnewbie]

Yeah. Try to get any former FT to respond to an email with all those questions. In general, FTs are an apathetic lot. I usually get responses like, "The job is good enough. I got my severance." When I ask for more details, I never get any more emails back. Some teachers give up and end up jumping blindly into the highest salary job they can find. BIG GAMBLE!

[ttompatz]

bumped just cause I'm too damned lazy to retype it all.

[maingman]

ttompatz wrote :


No foreign staff references to talk to = walk away now.
Accept NO EXCUSES for any reason.






how the bleep does that work� with the native/foreign teachers
that�s �walked�

[ttompatz]

[Aussiekimchi]

Tompatz usually gives ok advice....but I am not sure I am feeling his/her love for recruiters.....

Anyway...
if you're going to a private school ...T is right, not talking to a current teacher is risky....but sometimes that may be difficult.

1. It may be a new school with no foreign teachers
2. There may have been a legitimate "teacher at fault" runner
3. The school may be hiding something

Use your common sense and don't rush into it...any doubt at all...don't sign. It is not as if there aren't many jobs around.

If you're applying to a public school, contacting a teacher will probably be difficult as you will not know where you are going until after you arrive in Korea...as is the case usually with SMOE and EPIK. You can get lucky sometimes with GEPIK.

What you can do here is ask your recruiter or whomever is getting you the job, to put you in touch with some previous teachers they have placed in that area through that Ministry of Education.
A teacher placed through EPIK in Jeju will pretty much know what you will experience if you accept an EPIK job in Jeju.

Most teachers are pretty happy to help out with any questions about actual experiences...so try to take a job where you can hear about these...if you can't..just make a judgement call...but it is probably a risk that you need not take.

Ok I gotta get back to handing out resumes like flyers and counting my miliions!

[Draz]

[Aussiekimchi]

yep, completely agree Draz but there is also general info that teachers can share.
But talking to some teachers in that area is better than not talking to anyone...right?