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Milwaukiedave
Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Location: Goseong
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 Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:22 am Post subject: |
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| mithridates wrote: |
Ooh, look at all the excitement. Moore writes a blog post. "I'm changing my vote!" "He's a farking liar and propagandist!" "No he's not, he tells the truth!" "ARRRRGHHHHH Moore ruined everything!"
When there are twenty candidates in the race, when someone endorses one of them you *might* be able to get a bit of an accurate idea of what they're running for based on that. When there are three left? Not at all.
Anybody else besides stillnotking and myself that see this as pretty much a non-story? |
I think it is a non-story and I'm not changing my vote. This does give the right wing bloggers more to chew on though. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 8:59 am Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
| Kuros wrote: |
| 3rd-party after 3rd-party has demonstrated inaccuracy after inaccuracy in his films. One-sided would be one thing, but deception and mischaracterization is another. |
| The Urban Myth wrote: |
| His "films" have been proven massively inaccurate and deliberately so to be inflamatory. |
OK, I'll bite. Give some examples of these "inaccuracies" and "deceptions." |
I'd rather argue with a Muslim that the Koran is not the word of God. It'd be just as productive.
Don't confuse my absolute scorn for Moore-lovers for an inability to shut you down. Its a matter of time-management. |
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ernie
Joined: 05 Aug 2006
Location: asdfghjk
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 4:06 pm Post subject: |
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i've already asked for specific criticisms of his FILMS, to no avail...
i agree that this is really a non-story because moore's opinion on who should be president is really no more meaningful than ben affleck's or any other celebrity... however, he DOES have the right to endorse whomever he wants, and if he really is a douchebag (i'm not arguing against that) why does it matter what he says? by making such a stink about what one guy says on his website, you're making him into the very symbol you despise so much! |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 10:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Pligganease wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
| ernie wrote: |
| i've already asked for specific criticisms of his FILMS, to no avail... |
Yeah, me, too.
This is the response I got
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I'd rather argue with a Muslim that the Koran is not the word of God. It'd be just as productive.
Don't confuse my absolute scorn for Moore-lovers for an inability to shut you down. Its a matter of time-management. |
from clueless douchebag Kuros. It is typical of those who hurl these accusations, that they are then unwilling, or more probably unable, to sustain them, and that they have a smug, self-righteous, "we all know what we're talking about" attitude. |
I find it hard to believe that someone who puts so much stock in conspiracy theories and other such nonsense is a Moore fan.
Wait... No, I don't. I expect it.
Kuros isn't getting into this argument with you for the same reason I'm not: It's pointless, boring, and tired.
If you want to engage in pointless, boring diatribe with someone as willing to accept new ideas as yourself, try arguing with your computer.
http://www.mooreexposed.com/
Dun. |
In that link, the entire first half is spent on ad hominems against Moore, i.e. his weight, his apartment, etc. When they actually do get to his films, there are no specifics. Here is the entire criticism of Bowling for Colummbine:
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| Moore altered history, misled his viewers, and edited the footage and audio in such a way as to reverse the meaning. In one case, he took a speech of a person he desired to target; the problem was that the speech was in fact conciliatory and mild. So he spliced in footage from another speech, cut out paragraphs, and spliced the beginning of one sentence to the ending of another. In another, when he wanted to criticize a political advertisement, but it wasn't as pointed as he wanted, he spliced together two different political ads, then added titling which was in neither. |
Not a single specific fact do, or can, they take issue with.
For Stupid White Men, he claims it is bogus that "Bush secretly stole the election by having Florida bar convicted felons (which Moore maintains were great Gore supporters) from voting." This was all documented and exposed by Greg Palast, an American reporter who couldn't get his articles into print in the US so he went to work for the Guardian and BBC in London. "Bush" here refers to Jeb Bush who hired Choicepoint to compile a list of convicted felons who are not allowed to vote in Florida. What they actually did was to bar out-of-state felons as well, even those from states where felons' right to vote is restored after completeing their sentences. 90% of those were black, all polls showed 90% of blacks supporting Gore, long story short: Gore won Florida (and hence the presidency) by 77,000 votes. All the documentation is in The Best Democracy Money Can Buy or read more here.
I find your inability to tolerate difference of opinion and refusal to engage in discussion pathetic. You are so damn sure of yourselves that no one else could possibly have anything of value to add to the discussion. I guess you only want to talk to those who agree with you. Talk about boring. All those who want to do is stifle discussion and hurl epithets, go elsewhere. |
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patongpanda
Joined: 06 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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Didn't watch any films, but I read "Stupid White Men".
The claims are pretty breath-taking, I found them hard to believe...
...because if they were true the Americans should overthrow their government post-haste.
There are copious footnotes but I'm way too lazy to follow them up. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Tue Apr 22, 2008 11:38 pm Post subject: |
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| patongpanda wrote: |
| ...if they were true the Americans should overthrow their government post-haste. |
Exactly. One could say this about nearly anything the far left writes about America. If affairs were truly as beyond redemption and simply as evil as they have claimed, and if they truly acted in good faith in conscience, then they would need to move to overthrow the govt. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 1:47 am Post subject: |
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| Ha. Snicker. Michael Moore worked his magic, again. |
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Scott in Incheon
Joined: 30 Aug 2004
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:25 am Post subject: |
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I think you can find Manufacturing Dissent on a torrent site and have a look.
It seems from this documentary that Moore twists the truth in many ways.
http://www.hardylaw.net/Bowlingtranscript.html
one more...just about the heston speech in Columbine |
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Enrico Palazzo
Mod Team
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 6:41 am Post subject: |
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The comments on calling Kuros a douche bag, and the comments regarding Bacasper that were disparaging where he was called a moron basically by Pliganease and demeaned because he believes in conspiracy theory somehow doesn't strike me as civil ball playing behavior.
Will you guys work on those home runs...
Thanks... |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:18 am Post subject: |
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| Wow. Enrico, are you going to give them a timeout in the corner too? |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| Wow. Enrico, are you going to give them a timeout in the corner too? |
Uh, that's exactly what mods do. Are you joking? |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| Enrico Palazzo wrote: |
The comments on calling Kuros a douche bag, and the comments regarding Bacasper that were disparaging where he was called a moron basically by Pliganease and demeaned because he believes in conspiracy theory somehow doesn't strike me as civil ball playing behavior.
Will you guys work on those home runs...
Thanks... |
Enrico: I only did that because he said I wasn't worthy of his time to respond to me. All I did was ask politely for examples of something he brought up and was responded to this way.
OK, I plead guilty. I should have confined it to the Official Bashing Thread.
Kuros: there's a message for you on the OBT. In the meantime, why don't you tell us all why you are so angry? |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 7:50 am Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
| patongpanda wrote: |
| ...if they were true the Americans should overthrow their government post-haste. |
Exactly. One could say this about nearly anything the far left writes about America. If affairs were truly as beyond redemption and simply as evil as they have claimed, and if they truly acted in good faith in conscience, then they would need to move to overthrow the govt. |
I've thought for a long time that a country needs a revolution every 200 years or so.
Thomas Jefferson thought differently, that I'm off by an order of magnitude, yes, every 20 years.
By now, we are even past my own yardstick.
Revolution Now!  |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 2:13 pm Post subject: |
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| Enrico Palazzo wrote: |
The comments on calling Kuros a douche bag, and the comments regarding Bacasper that were disparaging where he was called a moron basically by Pliganease and demeaned because he believes in conspiracy theory somehow doesn't strike me as civil ball playing behavior.
Will you guys work on those home runs...
Thanks... |
Are you joking? bacasper basically called me an idiot for not believing in 9/11 conspiracies, but I can't even tell him why I don't want to argue with him? I didn't call him a moron at all. I just told him that no one wanted to argue with him about Moore when everyone has done it a thousand times.
Please tell me you're joking or explain to me how what I said could have been said more "civally." |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Wed Apr 23, 2008 3:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Pligganease wrote: |
| bacasper basically called me an idiot for |
You show me where I did that. |
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