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loose_ends
Joined: 23 Jul 2007
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 Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:34 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
| loose_ends wrote: |
The evidence of a "cover-up", at some level, is simply overwhelming. As ex-CIA analyst, Ray McGovern (google him if you don't know who he is) says, "The question is, what's being covered up?" |
I'll agree the government isn't telling us everything. However, what I think the Truthers fail to give serious consideration is the government is simply trying to cover up that it was asleep at the switch. It didn't make it happen. I didn't let it happen. It happened and the government used it for all its worth. |
That could very well be case. Or, it could be more. Truthers deservedly get a bad rap because they promote the worst as if it were rock solid truth.
We both agree that a cover-up exists to some extent. Would be be worth a new investigation to see just how "asleep" they were? I think it is important to keep in mind that many people in charge that day received promotions. I think it is equally important to keep in mind that a new 9-11 has been predicted by many people many times over, including from the president and vice-president. Another episode of being asleep at the wheel could mean a war with Iran, or more.
Is incompetence, especially at such a high lever, really so tolerable?
Lets keep this in perspective. I once worked for a fast food restaurant. If I couldn't do my job, they would have fired me. That is standard practice, no? |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 11:06 am Post subject: ... |
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In my experience, pro-journals have a "letter to the editor" section, where controversy vis-a-vis "papers" presented get their due.
A "letter" responding to the "9/11 commission", which is not a group of professional engineers, should be posted as a response to civil engineers from civil engineers for it to be legitimate.
I certainly don't think they've met Chomsky's demand.
By calling a letter a paper they're undermining themselves.
And, yes, I'm sympathetic to finding the truth.
Rather than planning a false-flag operation, I think it was entirely possible for the Bush admistration to sit and wait for a terrorist attack. That's what I think happened. And I don't think they expected the magnitude of the attack.
I don't like how the WTC rubble was whisked away, but I suspect the building wasn't up to insurance purposes. I don't think the evidence of molten metal days afterward is credible. I'm not sure how thermite chips would keep steel molten for days afterward.
A mistake was initially made immediately afterward suggesting that jet fuel melted beams in the building. The truth is that they were only weakened. You don't have to melt to produce the results we saw.
That's where I stand.
Again, I think I'm open to interpretation, but certainly not to people who are willing to lie about publishing something substantive in a professional journal. |
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Ukon
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 12:22 pm Post subject: Re: ... |
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[qoute]
That could very well be case. Or, it could be more. Truthers deservedly get a bad rap because they promote the worst as if it were rock solid truth.
We both agree that a cover-up exists to some extent. Would be be worth a new investigation to see just how "asleep" they were? I think it is important to keep in mind that many people in charge that day received promotions. I think it is equally important to keep in mind that a new 9-11 has been predicted by many people many times over, including from the president and vice-president. Another episode of being asleep at the wheel could mean a war with Iran, or more.
Is incompetence, especially at such a high lever, really so tolerable?
Lets keep this in perspective. I once worked for a fast food restaurant. If I couldn't do my job, they would have fired me. That is standard practice, no?[/qoute]
| Nowhere Man wrote: |
In my experience, pro-journals have a "letter to the editor" section, where controversy vis-a-vis "papers" presented get their due.
A "letter" responding to the "9/11 commission", which is not a group of professional engineers, should be posted as a response to civil engineers from civil engineers for it to be legitimate.
I certainly don't think they've met Chomsky's demand.
By calling a letter a paper they're undermining themselves.
And, yes, I'm sympathetic to finding the truth.
Rather than planning a false-flag operation, I think it was entirely possible for the Bush admistration to sit and wait for a terrorist attack. That's what I think happened. And I don't think they expected the magnitude of the attack.
I don't like how the WTC rubble was whisked away, but I suspect the building wasn't up to insurance purposes. I don't think the evidence of molten metal days afterward is credible. I'm not sure how thermite chips would keep steel molten for days afterward.
A mistake was initially made immediately afterward suggesting that jet fuel melted beams in the building. The truth is that they were only weakened. You don't have to melt to produce the results we saw.
That's where I stand.
Again, I think I'm open to interpretation, but certainly not to people who are willing to lie about publishing something substantive in a professional journal. |
I'm pretty sure people recieved promotions after pearl Harbor too. Gimme a break! Some people performed excellently in a time of crisis, others get automatic rank boosts in times of war or crisis, some take advantage of situations like these to boost their buddies to higher positions(My buddy Col. Sanders killed 20 soldiers in the retreat, I swear!).
You can argue Bush and Company "let an attack happen" perhaps, but that paints Bush as some monster. I don't particular like Bush's policies, but he's not the anti-christ. Most people who've hanged out with him or met him say he's a cool guy, not some evil, heartless, dick with megalomania.
The attack itself wasn't exactly foolproof, plenty of crazy groups are ploting all sorts of damaging attacks, only to abandon them when the money runs out, they get bored, or they're wives start nagging them.
There was a famous actor who was on the plane with some of the terrorists when they were running drills prior to 9/11. He was on Conan, and said that he thought they were up to something, went to the airport office, filled a report of suspicious behavior, and saw it be placed on top of a gigantic pile of paper with similar concerns.  You can't investigate every crazy suspicious activity.[/quote] |
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Nowhere Man
Joined: 08 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| You can argue Bush and Company "let an attack happen" perhaps, but that paints Bush as some monster. |
I don't think that paints him as some monster. I think it matches his "Bring It " attitude afterward.
They tried to kill his father. Pre-election 2000, I told people that a Republican vote was a vote for war. I don't think I'm a swami...
Aside from that, I'm not fully sure what you're on about. |
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Ukon
Joined: 29 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| Nowhere Man wrote: |
| Quote: |
| You can argue Bush and Company "let an attack happen" perhaps, but that paints Bush as some monster. |
I don't think that paints him as some monster. I think it matches his "Bring It " attitude afterward.
They tried to kill his father. Pre-election 2000, I told people that a Republican vote was a vote for war. I don't think I'm a swami...
Aside from that, I'm not fully sure what you're on about. |
Letting thousands of innocents die to advance a political agenda is pretty monstrous.
A drive by almost killed my father, about 2 inches away from his face was a bullet hole. I don't particularly harbor any ill will towards the Crips.
It failed, he lives, the bush family likely got over it. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Ukon wrote: |
| Letting thousands of innocents die to advance a political agenda is pretty monstrous. |
The thing is only a freaking moron buys into these asinine "9/11 conspiracy theories." They're not science as the loons tout them to be and they're only predicated on a pre-conceived conclusion: the government is evil.
The government wasn't "asleep at the switch" and didn't "let it happen." |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| Ukon wrote: |
| Letting thousands of innocents die to advance a political agenda is pretty monstrous. |
The thing is only a freaking moron buys into these asinine "9/11 conspiracy theories." They're not science as the loons tout them to be and they're only predicated on a pre-conceived conclusion: the government is evil.
The government wasn't "asleep at the switch" and didn't "let it happen." |
Yup.
If you ask Loose_Ends and his lot, everything is a conspiracy. JFK, Katrina, the economy, 9/11, Oklahoma City, Waco, the "big blackout", etc... They were all government conspiracies.
Nothing happens for the most logical and easily visible reasons; it's all the big, bad United States government. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Pligganease wrote: |
| Quote: |
The thing is only a freaking moron buys into these asinine "9/11 conspiracy theories." They're not science as the loons tout them to be and they're only predicated on a pre-conceived conclusion: the government is evil.
The government wasn't "asleep at the switch" and didn't "let it happen." |
Yup.
If you ask Loose_Ends and his lot, everything is a conspiracy. JFK, Katrina, the economy, 9/11, Oklahoma City, Waco, the "big blackout", etc... They were all government conspiracies.
Nothing happens for the most logical and easily visible reasons; it's all the big, bad United States government. |
Yep. |
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Pligganease
Joined: 14 Sep 2004
Location: The deep south...
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 4:53 pm Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| Pligganease wrote: |
| Quote: |
The thing is only a freaking moron buys into these asinine "9/11 conspiracy theories." They're not science as the loons tout them to be and they're only predicated on a pre-conceived conclusion: the government is evil.
The government wasn't "asleep at the switch" and didn't "let it happen." |
Yup.
If you ask Loose_Ends and his lot, everything is a conspiracy. JFK, Katrina, the economy, 9/11, Oklahoma City, Waco, the "big blackout", etc... They were all government conspiracies.
Nothing happens for the most logical and easily visible reasons; it's all the big, bad United States government. |
Yep. |
Oh, that's good. Never seen that before. It sums up "troofers" well. |
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Enrico Palazzo
Mod Team
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 9:42 pm Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| Ukon wrote: |
| Letting thousands of innocents die to advance a political agenda is pretty monstrous. |
The thing is only a freaking moron buys into these asinine "9/11 conspiracy theories." They're not science as the loons tout them to be and they're only predicated on a pre-conceived conclusion: the government is evil.
The government wasn't "asleep at the switch" and didn't "let it happen." |
Calling people morons involves playing the player and not the ball. Carry on, but do follow the terms of service.
1)Consult the TOS. Posters, posters, the TOS, follow the TOS.
2)I know it's hard for some, but you must do that.
3)Being respectful of other posters you disagree with is a must for having a civil dialogue.
4)Surely, a teacher can show better decorum. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Thu Apr 24, 2008 10:19 pm Post subject: |
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| It's not hard at all for me to show respect for people I disagree with. I have plenty of decorum. My level of decorum is certainly far higher than accusing someone of mass murder with exactly zero evidence. |
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Enrico Palazzo
Mod Team
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 12:51 am Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| It's not hard at all for me to show respect for people I disagree with. I have plenty of decorum. My level of decorum is certainly far higher than accusing someone of mass murder with exactly zero evidence. |
That's fair enough. It is just that some people on the forum subscribe to what one would label conspiracy theories, and if you happen to think such thinking is way out in left-field, there is a way to say it without having them feel demeaned. The "conspiracy" theorists are outnumbered, generally, I am assuming by those who don't fit the bill. Anyway, thank you for the considerate reply. |
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