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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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 Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| bacasper wrote: |
The US should cross that bridge when it comes to it.
Now do we have a deal? |
what is getting out of the mideast? Exactly.
Example:
One of Saddam's reasons for invading Kuwait was that he had a plan to use gulf oil to break the power of the US and other western nations and also to blackmail them.
If Iraq had been allowed to keep Kuwait it would have been a powerful nation at the expense of the US. Saddam had no right to Kuwait and the US didn't have to let him have it. Saddam had a right I guess to Iraqi oil but he didn't have a right to Kuwaiti oil.
The same goes for Iran or any other other enemy of the US. |
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bigverne
Joined: 12 May 2004
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:16 am Post subject: Re: ... |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| bigverne wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Nowhere Man wrote: |
Maybe one person on this board is a Muslim.
My concept is this: Go tell the Muslims what you think. |
There are muslims who read this board. I've had a couple of Brit muslims spontaneoulsy pm me occasionally to let me know their relief that not everyone here was going insane with Islamophobia. They often read this forum, but tended to stick to posting on the other forums. I'm assuming that they were just the tip of the iceberg. And then there is always fromtheuk. |
'Islamophobia', the latest bit of PC newsspeak which seeks to pigeonhole legitimate criticism of an intolerant ideology as some kind of mental illness. |
Criticism of ideology is one thing. References to 'the muzzies' is another. Also, discussing muslims, as if all muslims were some homogenous group, all bent on the distruction of the West or non-muslims and what-have-you, is a form of bigotry. One you yourself should be very familiar with, eh. |
I have never referred to 'the muzzies' nor have I said that Muslims are a homogeneous group. However, I will not repeat the obvious nonsense that 'the vast majority of Muslims are moderate', when such statements are quite obviously false. I have also never said that all Muslims are bent on the destruction of the West, although it is quite obvious that mass migration of Muslims to the West is clearly not in the interest of the West. Such opinions are instantly labelled Islamophobic, which is much easier than actually confronting the substance of such views, because that would risk asking a few uncomfortable questions. |
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bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 8:21 am Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| bacasper wrote: |
The US should cross that bridge when it comes to it.
Now do we have a deal? |
what is getting out of the mideast? Exactly.
Example:
One of Saddam's reasons for invading Kuwait was that he had a plan to use gulf oil to break the power of the US and other western nations and also to blackmail them. |
Counterexample: The real reason Saddam invaded Kuwait is because oil drillers in Kuwait had gone very close to the Iraq border, where they use slant drilling techniques to steal Iraqi oil. Saddam got wind of this, and sought and got the approval of the Americans who then used that as the pretext for Desert Storm. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 4:04 pm Post subject: |
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That Saddam got approval from the US is not so.
(The US isn't good enough to set him up like that)
In fact he expected to fight the US for Kuwait.
| Quote: |
Yet despite this warning, Saddam Hussein tried to send terrorist teams to America and did blow up the Kuwaiti oil fields�he simply gambled on which two of the three things Mr. Baker mentioned were unlikely to result in America ending the regime. (Many officials from that Bush administration have suggested, in fact, that Saddam Hussein didn't even make the right calculation.)
Proponents of deterrence also argue that since nobody has ever actually tried to deter Saddam Hussein from attacking another country, how can we claim that doing so will be difficult in the future? The example most often cited is the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, where the common wisdom holds that because of the botched messages he received from the American ambassador, April Glaspie, Iraq had no reason to believe we would fight.
In fact, all the evidence indicates the opposite: Saddam Hussein believed it was highly likely that the United States would try to liberate Kuwait, but convinced himself that we would send only lightly armed, rapidly deployable forces that would be quickly destroyed by his 120,000-man Republican Guard. After this, he assumed, Washington would acquiesce to his conquest.
Much of the evidence for this remains classified, but at least two points can be made using public material: Tariq Aziz has told reporters that this was what Saddam Hussein thought at the time; and we know that when the Republican Guards invaded Kuwait they moved quickly�even before they had consolidated control over the country�to set up defenses along Kuwait's borders and against amphibious and airborne landings.
In other words, Saddam Hussein thinks we tried to deter him, and that we failed. He was ready and willing to fight the United States for Kuwait. |
http://www.brookings.edu/opinions/2003/0221iraq_pollack.aspx |
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Manner of Speaking
Joined: 09 Jan 2003
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Thwartley
Joined: 19 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| Anyone ever notice that the mideast street never... |
Ever notice how rather pedestrian descriptions like "public opinion" are replaced with hipster terms like "the Arab street" when discussing this topic? |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:24 am Post subject: |
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"Islamophobia" is a meaningless world. As any good center-left person, I fear religious hate and refuse to place Muslims on a special pedestal. Attacks on gays in Europe are up. As are rapes in places like Scandinavia. This was once where the left was sharp. We opposed violence against women and gays by religious types. Now, we call anybody who cares about it names.
About the OP. Yes, they hate us for our freedom, but a more nuanced position must be had when discussing the violence. The 9/11 attacks were about foreign policy, and ditto with 7.7 and to a lesser extent Madrid. As to the numerous plots in Norway, Sweden and the ongoing ethnic cleansing in Sudan, Thailand, and the rest, that is just part of a larger historical reality that has become impolite to speak of.
Soon, we will have to wake from our long sleepy vacation from history. |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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ddeubel
Joined: 20 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 7:06 am Post subject: |
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I'm still lurking, don't have the courage to return to discuss anything here.....
This is the pearl I found herein....needs repeating.
Nowhere said to Joo...
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My concept is this: Go tell the Muslims what you think.
Some of them are Khomeini-lovers; don't get me wrong. I have yet to meet those people.
But I'm sure that when you explain to them that Mideast Street didn't say jack about Saddam's US-supplied campaign of chemical terror, they're gonna go, "Oh, good point mate, I never thought about that. Praise god for your western buttocks coming and civilizing my hostile ways."
That's really the way to have peace on earth. We need more people to talk down to others... |
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Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 2:37 pm Post subject: |
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Yep it was wrong to post any of that. It should have all been covered up.  |
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