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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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 Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 9:41 pm Post subject: 'Untouchable' woman dies after Indian medics refuse treatmen |
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'Untouchable' woman dies after Indian medics refuse treatment
Module body
Thu Apr 24, 1:09 PM
What's this
LUCKNOW, India (AFP) - An "untouchable" woman who gave birth outside an Indian hospital because doctors would not treat her died Thursday, a day after her baby, officials admitted.
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The newborn boy of Maya Devi, 28, died Wednesday due to lack of medical help minutes after being born outside the maternity wing of Kanpur Medical College in northern Uttar Pradesh state.
Devi was only put in intensive care after giving birth but she died of a heart attack early Thursday morning.
Several doctors, including the hospital's chief medical superintendent, had refused to touch her or provide medical care as she delivered her baby, the Press Trust of India reported.
BAHARAT |
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Chris_Dixon
Joined: 09 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Fri Apr 25, 2008 10:37 pm Post subject: |
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you could have made your post easier to read....
Why was she untouchable?
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Devi was a Dalit, or "untouchable", a group at the bottom of the caste social ladder who have long been ostracised and forced into menial professions despite laws banning discrimination. Many high-class Hindus fear coming into contact with them. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:15 am Post subject: |
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| Chris_Dixon wrote: |
you could have made your post easier to read....
Why was she untouchable?
edit
Devi was a Dalit, or "untouchable", a group at the bottom of the caste social ladder who have long been ostracised and forced into menial professions despite laws banning discrimination. Many high-class Hindus fear coming into contact with them. |
I just quoted the beginning of the article. Anyway, it is a shame that a woman died, because of a misinterpretation of Hinduism. A woman and her child could have been saved, but they died instead. |
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CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 12:26 am Post subject: |
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I hope all the medical professionals involved lose their licenses and the woman's family prevails in a suit against the hospital.
What would be better, of course, would be that this never have happened. Bigotry is sometimes fatal...to the person on the receiving end of the prejudice. |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 3:28 am Post subject: |
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| Gandhi would be so proud. India! Put your hands in the air like ya just don't cay-a! |
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Gwangjuboy
Joined: 08 Jul 2003
Location: England
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:39 am Post subject: |
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| blaseblasphemener wrote: |
| Gandhi would be so proud. India! Put your hands in the air like ya just don't cay-a! |
The sandal wearing buffoon was a bigot himself. |
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blaseblasphemener
Joined: 01 Jun 2006
Location: There's a voice, keeps on calling me, down the road, that's where I'll always be
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| Gwangjuboy wrote: |
| blaseblasphemener wrote: |
| Gandhi would be so proud. India! Put your hands in the air like ya just don't cay-a! |
The sandal wearing buffoon was a bigot himself. |
Strong words. Didn't Gandhi speak out against the caste system? |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:20 am Post subject: |
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| blaseblasphemener wrote: |
| Gwangjuboy wrote: |
| blaseblasphemener wrote: |
| Gandhi would be so proud. India! Put your hands in the air like ya just don't cay-a! |
The sandal wearing buffoon was a bigot himself. |
Strong words. Didn't Gandhi speak out against the caste system? |
Yes, Ghandi-ji spoke out against the horrid caste system, and he also said "I am a Jew, Hindu, Christian, and a Muslim", and when he was shot he said "Rama". A bigot, Ghandi was not. |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| blaseblasphemener wrote: |
| Gwangjuboy wrote: |
| blaseblasphemener wrote: |
| Gandhi would be so proud. India! Put your hands in the air like ya just don't cay-a! |
The sandal wearing buffoon was a bigot himself. |
Strong words. Didn't Gandhi speak out against the caste system? |
He might have been enlightened on the caste system. Not so much on racial issues.
| Quote: |
The 2.5 metre high (8ft) bronze statue depicting Gandhi as a dashing young human rights lawyer has been welcomed by Nelson Mandela, among others, for recognising the Indian who launched the fight against white minority rule at the turn of the last century.
But critics have attacked the gesture for overlooking racist statements attributed to Gandhi, which suggest he viewed black people as lazy savages who were barely human.
Newspapers continue to publish letters from indignant readers: "Gandhi had no love for Africans. To [him], Africans were no better than the 'Untouchables' of India," said a correspondent to The Citizen.
Others are harsher, claiming the civil rights icon "hated" black people and ignored their suffering at the hands of colonial masters while championing the cause of Indians.
Unveiled this month, the statue stands in Gandhi Square in central Johannesburg, not far from the office from which he worked during some of his 21 years in South Africa.
The British-trained barrister was supposed to have been on a brief visit in 1893 to represent an Indian company in a legal action, but he stayed to fight racist laws after a conductor kicked him off a train for sitting in a first-class compartment reserved for whites.
Outraged, he started defending Indians charged with failing to register for passes and other political offences, founded a newspaper, and formed South Africa's first organised political resistance movement. His tactics of mobilising people for passive resistance and mass protest inspired black people to organise and some historians credit Gandhi as the progenitor of the African National Congress, which formed in 1912, two years before he returned to India to fight British colonial rule.
However, the new statue has prompted bitter recollections about some of Gandhi's writings.
Forced to share a cell with black people, he wrote: "Many of the native prisoners are only one degree removed from the animal and often created rows and fought among themselves."
He was quoted at a meeting in Bombay in 1896 saying that Europeans sought to degrade Indians to the level of the "raw kaffir, whose occupation is hunting and whose sole ambition is to collect a certain number of cattle to buy a wife with, and then pass his life in indolence and nakedness".
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My own view is that Gandhi helped an entire nation gain its independence, and made very useful contributions to political strategy in the process. Other than that, there is no need to regard him as anything but a mortal human, with many of the same flaws and limitations as anyone else at the time. The revelations about his Archie Bunkerisms are interesting from a biographical standpoint, but don't do much to change my opinion of his overall achievements.
http://tinyurl.com/6m69mf |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 11:04 am Post subject: |
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| On the other hand wrote: |
| My own view is that Gandhi helped an entire nation gain its independence, and made very useful contributions to political strategy in the process. Other than that, there is no need to regard him as anything but a mortal human, with many of the same flaws and limitations as anyone else at the time. The revelations about his Archie Bunkerisms are interesting from a biographical standpoint, but don't do much to change my opinion of his overall achievements. |
Agreed. Some also tend to assign Gandhi duties to have accomplished this or that, as well as those duties Gandhi assigned himself and fulfilled. Then when Gandhi fails to do these things, they fault him. Socialists fault him for failing to liberate the peasantry, for example. Others say he failed to liberate women. Now we hear he failed to regard Africans as equals. All of these critiques, which almost always derive from idealists who without fail find someone like Gandhi they seem to believe might finally have accomplished all that they dream of, that is, everything, become expressions of unreasonably bitter disappointment.
Gandhi failed to do this. Gandhi failed to do that. He also failed to establish an Indian space-shuttle program and import Oreo cookies. So what? And it is hard to see how such "failures" justify calling the man "a sandal-wearing buffoon" and "a bigot." |
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kabrams
Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Location: your Dad's house
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 6:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Adventurer wrote: |
| blaseblasphemener wrote: |
| Gwangjuboy wrote: |
| blaseblasphemener wrote: |
| Gandhi would be so proud. India! Put your hands in the air like ya just don't cay-a! |
The sandal wearing buffoon was a bigot himself. |
Strong words. Didn't Gandhi speak out against the caste system? |
Yes, Ghandi-ji spoke out against the horrid caste system, and he also said "I am a Jew, Hindu, Christian, and a Muslim", and when he was shot he said "Rama". A bigot, Ghandi was not. |
As someone said, Gandhi was...as much as it pains me to say...he didn't like black people. He helped his own, and that's fine, but he worked against blacks. Shameful stuff, but of course, he changed a bit as he got older. |
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kabrams
Joined: 15 Mar 2008
Location: your Dad's house
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Gopher wrote: |
Gandhi failed to do this. Gandhi failed to do that. He also failed to establish an Indian space-shuttle program and import Oreo cookies. So what? And it is hard to see how such "failures" justify calling the man "a sandal-wearing buffoon" and "a bigot." |
Gandhi actively worked against native black Africans, and was ashamed that Indians were classified close to Blacks. He called them naked k***** and said that Indian and White were better than Black. He was against Indians and black people working together, living together, etc.
No, I wouldn't call him a baffoon. No one is perfect. However, I would hate to ignore history for what it is. I like Gandhi, but I don't like his bigotry. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:18 pm Post subject: |
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| kabrams wrote: |
| Gopher wrote: |
Gandhi failed to do this. Gandhi failed to do that. He also failed to establish an Indian space-shuttle program and import Oreo cookies. So what? And it is hard to see how such "failures" justify calling the man "a sandal-wearing buffoon" and "a bigot." |
Gandhi actively worked against native black Africans, and was ashamed that Indians were classified close to Blacks. He called them naked k***** and said that Indian and White were better than Black. He was against Indians and black people working together, living together, etc.
No, I wouldn't call him a baffoon. No one is perfect. However, I would hate to ignore history for what it is. I like Gandhi, but I don't like his bigotry. |
I'd be interested to know when he had these attitudes. Was it in the early days when he was still a young man? Or did he retain these views until his death? I'd be willing to wager that he eventually confronted his own racism, though I don't know. But I do know that over time he changed his attitudes towards the dalits (the indian word for untouchables). For example, when he first began to accept that 'untouchablity' was unacceptable, he still believed that the castes should not mix with each other to dine, and should certainly not intermarry. Slowly over time he changed his views, and, digging back into my memory (please correct me if I am wrong) he came to agree with intermarriage in his later years. Hopefully his atititude to race undertook a similar metamorphis through his lifetime. |
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Gopher
Joined: 04 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:45 pm Post subject: |
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| kabrams wrote: |
| ...I would hate to ignore history for what it is. |
Glad to hear it. Have you considered that Gandhi earned a law degree in Victorian England and, while there, he internalized a great deal of the British worldview, including its worldviews on gender and race.
Why would you hold Gandhi accountable for failing to stand outside the late-nineteenth and early-twentieth centuries, then? That is, for failing to attack racism the way we learned to do only after the late-1960s?
Such critiques strike me as absurd and childish even. It is unfair to judge people by other eras' standards. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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| People are not static. Ghandi said those things a long time before he reached his height. Many people have had bigoted views in the past before changing their views. Ian Paisley of Ulster had very anti-Catholic views before embracing so many Catholics including IRA members and the same for IRA members vis-a-vis Protestants. I object to looking at someone like that without looking at their whole life. |
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