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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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 Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Hank the Iconoclast wrote: |
| What's so difficult in getting a four year degree? Shite. It would be nice if Korea had some standards. At least a BA or BS proves that the teacher had to work for something in his life. Obviously, that's not enough for me since I am already planning on get my MA for professional development. Guess it's all about the almighty won and the easiest way to get a job. Korea is seriously underminding their education system with these cheap fixes. That's why English education is such a joke here compared to Europe. |
Ummm, many "hagwons" in Europe only need a CELTA. Many people there teaching English have no BA/BS. Still, it's usually much more professional overall. |
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VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:50 pm Post subject: |
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For the record...
There are no two-year degrees at the undergraduate level as a first degree. Unless it's something new or in some odd place.
Two-year diploma programs abound. |
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ReeseDog
Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Location: Classified
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| wylies99 wrote: |
| There are so many illegal "teachers"(aka morons) here already, "teaching" without diplomas, that what difference would it make? |
How do they get by? I mean, how do they go undetected? Sooner or later, doesn't law or hagwon police or karma or something catch up with them? Get them expelled or run out on a rail or something? |
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Atavistic
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: How totally stupid that Korean doesn't show in this area.
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:13 pm Post subject: |
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| VanIslander wrote: |
For the record...
There are no two-year degrees at the undergraduate level as a first degree. Unless it's something new or in some odd place.
Two-year diploma programs abound. |
What's this then?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associate's_degree |
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MrsSeoul
Joined: 31 May 2007
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:34 pm Post subject: |
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| ReeseDog wrote: |
| wylies99 wrote: |
| There are so many illegal "teachers"(aka morons) here already, "teaching" without diplomas, that what difference would it make? |
How do they get by? I mean, how do they go undetected? Sooner or later, doesn't law or hagwon police or karma or something catch up with them? Get them expelled or run out on a rail or something? |
By the Korean police? That's a joke, isn't it? |
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VanIslander
Joined: 18 Aug 2003
Location: Geoje, Hadong, Tongyeong,... now in a small coastal island town outside Gyeongsangnamdo!
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Atavistic wrote: |
| VanIslander wrote: |
For the record...
There are no two-year degrees at the undergraduate level as a first degree. Unless it's something new or in some odd place.
Two-year diploma programs abound. |
What's this then?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associate's_degree |
rare in Canada... seems more prevalent elsewhere: "associate degrees"... is that what Korea's considering? .. or simply ANY two-year postsecondary program (vast majority of which are diploma level, non-degrees).
I did a two-year diploma program in Business Administration in a college in my home town because my sweetie was still in high school. I went on to take a double undergraduate 5-year university degree program and found a HUGE difference int he student body between diploma and degree level.
Any yahoo gets a two-year diploma; those students who make it to 4th year undergrad courses are either smart or hard working or both. The same can't be said of the average diploma graduate. |
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rooster_2006
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:16 pm Post subject: |
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| VanIslander wrote: |
| Atavistic wrote: |
| VanIslander wrote: |
For the record...
There are no two-year degrees at the undergraduate level as a first degree. Unless it's something new or in some odd place.
Two-year diploma programs abound. |
What's this then?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associate's_degree |
rare in Canada... seems more prevalent elsewhere: "associate degrees"... is that what Korea's considering? .. or simply ANY two-year postsecondary program (vast majority of which are diploma level, non-degrees).
I did a two-year diploma program in Business Administration in a college in my home town because my sweetie was still in high school. I went on to take a double undergraduate 5-year university degree program and found a HUGE difference int he student body between diploma and degree level.
Any yahoo gets a two-year diploma; those students who make it to 4th year undergrad courses are either smart or hard working or both. The same can't be said of the average diploma graduate. |
Actually to be technical, I called up the Korean embassy about this, and it's not a two-year (associate's) degree at all that is allowable right now.
What they are asking for is the first two years of a western (in my case, American) four-year university. So the TaLK program is for people who have completed the first half of their bachelor's degree and at least in theory excludes community college graduates. So all those people who keep saying "American community colleges are just like high schools," that's not really a valid argument against the new visa rules, since they actually base your eligibility instead on how much four-year college you've completed. Some high school kid who does dual enrollment at a community college and finishes his AA by the time he's 18 would not be able to come over here under the current law change. However, an 18-year-old prodigy who did two years of regular university might.
HOWEVER, I asked the consular officer whether it would be okay to just show a transcript from a four-year university with TRANSFERS from community colleges and the Yonsei University Korean Language Institute in South Korea. So still 60 credit hours, just not in the originally-stated configuration. He said he wasn't exactly sure, but he thinks it would be okay, but because of the 39 Yonsei University credits and the CELTA. He didn't think this was an exception that could be made just for attending community college. He said he'd check with the 교육부. I will contact him later and let you all know what I find. |
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laogaiguk
Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Location: somewhere in Korea
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| VanIslander wrote: |
Any yahoo gets a two-year diploma; those students who make it to 4th year undergrad courses are either smart or hard working or both. The same can't be said of the average diploma graduate. |
Ha, I have met too many that weren't. The chances of the average 4 year undergrad student being smarter or having worked harder might be a bit higher, but not by much. Money is a big factor in who can have either. Have you seen some of the arts degrees they have nowadays? Universities are businesses nowadays, and they want anyone's money. If some graduated with an Engineering degree, maybe, but an arts degree nowadays... I would have to see what kind of arts degree. |
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esetters21
Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat Apr 26, 2008 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| rooster_2006 wrote: |
| VanIslander wrote: |
| Atavistic wrote: |
| VanIslander wrote: |
For the record...
There are no two-year degrees at the undergraduate level as a first degree. Unless it's something new or in some odd place.
Two-year diploma programs abound. |
What's this then?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Associate's_degree |
rare in Canada... seems more prevalent elsewhere: "associate degrees"... is that what Korea's considering? .. or simply ANY two-year postsecondary program (vast majority of which are diploma level, non-degrees).
I did a two-year diploma program in Business Administration in a college in my home town because my sweetie was still in high school. I went on to take a double undergraduate 5-year university degree program and found a HUGE difference int he student body between diploma and degree level.
Any yahoo gets a two-year diploma; those students who make it to 4th year undergrad courses are either smart or hard working or both. The same can't be said of the average diploma graduate. |
Actually to be technical, I called up the Korean embassy about this, and it's not a two-year (associate's) degree at all that is allowable right now.
What they are asking for is the first two years of a western (in my case, American) four-year university. So the TaLK program is for people who have completed the first half of their bachelor's degree and at least in theory excludes community college graduates. So all those people who keep saying "American community colleges are just like high schools," that's not really a valid argument against the new visa rules, since they actually base your eligibility instead on how much four-year college you've completed. Some high school kid who does dual enrollment at a community college and finishes his AA by the time he's 18 would not be able to come over here under the current law change. However, an 18-year-old prodigy who did two years of regular university might.
HOWEVER, I asked the consular officer whether it would be okay to just show a transcript from a four-year university with TRANSFERS from community colleges and the Yonsei University Korean Language Institute in South Korea. So still 60 credit hours, just not in the originally-stated configuration. He said he wasn't exactly sure, but he thinks it would be okay, but because of the 39 Yonsei University credits and the CELTA. He didn't think this was an exception that could be made just for attending community college. He said he'd check with the 교육부. I will contact him later and let you all know what I find. |
And we all know how mature and responsible people with 2 years of university under their belt are  . It is just another quick fix that hasn't been well thought out by the K government. |
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captaincrick
Joined: 23 Mar 2007
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 3:56 pm Post subject: Hmmm |
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I recently got a job at a Canadian college in Vancouver (reputable public college with over 18000 students and is in the process of becoming a university) teaching students from Dubai. I have a 2 year diploma in business management and a TESL certificate. If a Canadian public college is willing to hire people like me to teach English, why not a school in Korea? I even get my own office and get to share the staff lounge with my former profs (which I know will piss them off). This elitism and ageism is pathetic. Did I mention that I am only 21? Maturity has nothing to do with age; maturity comes from experience and it means making wise decisions. Having a degree doesn't make a person more mature. I plan on going to Simon Fraser University in Vancouver to get my degree in business administration and then plan on teaching in Korea (I see this as wise). I dont see anything wrong however with an associates degree holder going to Korea and teaching. Seriously, does it really take a degree to play "Simon says" or to teach the ABCs? Really are there not better things for degree holders to be doing, like saving the world or something? Also, I know that English teachers do a lot more than just play Simon says and teach the ABCs, that was just an oversimplification for the purpose of insulting those who think that a degree makes a person better at something than someone else. A degree is a tool, not a ticket to a free ride through life.
"Dont let anyone look down on you because you are young"--The Apostle Paul. |
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IncognitoHFX
Joined: 06 May 2007
Location: Yeongtong, Suwon
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 4:03 pm Post subject: |
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They'd better not allow people from Community Colleges to come teach here. The people I know back home that went to the local CC went there because they couldn't do anything else, and it was their only means to get any kind of post secondary. Even if it was just a two year course in plumbing or basic carpentry.
Those people will be able to come to Korea? Aww crap. I know some idiots teaching here now with degrees, but if we open the floodgates like this we're going to have some real idiots coming through. I mean real, actual, idiots, not just people who act stupid. |
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Bryan
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 3:42 am Post subject: |
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| aarontendo wrote: |
| I had a student visa in 2005 and I didn't have to show any proof of income. It might have to do with the arrangement the school makes. They were providing tuition and housing and a stipend so I guess that could be why we weren't asked. |
I'm doing the exact same thing coming this summer, and I wasn't asked to provide a bank balance. Did you go to Chung Ang? |
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aarontendo
Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Location: Daegu-ish
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 4:08 am Post subject: |
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| Bryan wrote: |
| aarontendo wrote: |
| I had a student visa in 2005 and I didn't have to show any proof of income. It might have to do with the arrangement the school makes. They were providing tuition and housing and a stipend so I guess that could be why we weren't asked. |
I'm doing the exact same thing coming this summer, and I wasn't asked to provide a bank balance. Did you go to Chung Ang? |
SoonChunHyang in Asan, Chungnam-do. Was a fun experience and a good program. |
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Atavistic
Joined: 22 May 2006
Location: How totally stupid that Korean doesn't show in this area.
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 5:17 am Post subject: |
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| rooster_2006 wrote: |
| Some high school kid who does dual enrollment at a community college and finishes his AA by the time he's 18 would not be able to come over here under the current law change. However, an 18-year-old prodigy who did two years of regular university might. |
You obviously have no clue how dual enrollment in my state worked. Once you were approved (which was easy), you could go to ANY college, uni, whatever. I only went to my school because I didn't have a car and my mother was doing the AASN there, which meant we could carpool.
A friend was 17 when she'd completed 2 years at the U of M. For the record, it took her 4 and a half more years to graduate FROM THE SAME SCHOOL. And then she went on to become...a secretary. At the SAME SCHOOL.
Meanwhile, because of what I'd done, I got a huge scholarship to an expensive women's college and graduated--debt free--before anyone else in my high school class. In fact, I had my M. Ed. when most of my classmates were finally getting their BAs.
But hey, I guess she was the prodigy.  |
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depth
Joined: 01 Feb 2008
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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| Trespasser wrote: |
| Check out this link: http://talk.mest.go.kr It is being implemented this summer for public schools in rural areas. 1,500,000 won for 15 teaching hours and 40 working hours. Airfare, housing, medical paid. Applicants only need two years of college/university. |
this seems a win win solution for all:
-rural schools get access to native english teachers.
-exisiting native teachers in cities (public or private) on wages of 2.0M + are not at risk of loosing pay, because the "lets talk" program is only for rural public schools
-if korean co-teachers don't want to work with 2yr degree native english teachers, then they will strive to work harder and secure jobs in city areas. (good teachers migrate to better quality schools)
Korean immigration look like they have found a balance. they are only being lobbied to address the rural areas, they are not being lobbied to allow 2yr degrees in cities.
What benefit is there to immigration to blanket approve all korea, except to lower costs? I doubt city dwelling koreans or city korean co teachers will support lower standard qualifications in the way a rural area would. Plus the issue of racism (applicable to non-caucasian 2yr degree holders) in cities, how many non-caucasian E2's are in jobs here compared to caucasian degree holders?
i just hope immigration don't blanket approve 2yr degree across whole of korea because this will likely dilute wages which will mean increased competition for higher paying jobs.
Korea's primary objective is to compete in the global market. lowering qualification requirements of teachers across all of korea goes against this goal. i don't see immigration allowing this to happen just because rural areas have shortages (which is being addressed).
Korea reacted strongly to changing the drug testing and criminal testing to make it more stringent. do you really think one hand they will be strict on this, then become lax on qualifications?? It's a rural issue, and immigration are addressing as a rural issue (lets talk program). I don't see it going to apply to all of korea including big cities.
Last edited by depth on Sun May 11, 2008 6:03 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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