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schwa
Joined: 18 Jan 2003
Location: Yap
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 Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 1:36 am Post subject: |
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I see real signs of improvement in english here over my 5 years in one small city. Shopkeepers, taxi drivers, restaurateurs -- willing to give it a shot, in stark contrast to when I first got here. Checkout girl in the supermarket a few minutes ago switched into surprisingly good & unselfconscious english with me.
Teachers I teach drive me crazy sometimes, terrified they might make some image-shattering grammar mistake so they just freeze up instead. Ordinary people, on the other hand, seem more intent on just trying to communicate. A growing number are gaining opportunity to travel or have relatives abroad. English is becoming something more useful & interesting to them, & the years of text memorization werent a complete waste of time.
In my recent experience I've met relatively uneducated Vietnamese, Filipinos, & Mexicans who wouldnt shy from trying to express any idea in english. Garbled syntax perhaps but perfectly comprehensible. Bravo. As more Koreans take the plunge & just start swimming, I think we'll see a growing ease. Our efforts arent wasted. |
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Ody
Joined: 27 Jan 2003
Location: over here
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 3:56 am Post subject: |
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i think these three comments taken together create an insightful and balanced response to the matter.
| Been Here Years wrote: |
I read your article "Seoul hears some biting foreign advice" with interest but wonder why you don't publish the other side of the coin.
As a teacher of adults for a number of years I would like to give you a few of the reasons that Korean adults do not speak English well.
l. They come late, leave early or are absent from class due to work comittments.
2. They do no homework or study. Reasons given are work and home comittments and being too tired.
3. They do not practice outside of class. Reasons range from no one to practice with (even though our teachers have offered to take phone calls on occasion to help them), embarrassment, lack of time or too tired.
4. When asked why they want to learn English most low level male students cite work related reasons but when asked do they want to study they invariably answer no. Quite a few students resent being "forced" to study English in order to obtain or keep a job and this resentment interferes with their ability to improve their level.
5. The inefficient method of English instruction in the school system produces children who have built in problems of grammar and pronunciation and who are so tired of "studying" English that they literally switch off. As they get older they become embarrassed at their long time as English students while being unable to speak or understand English.
If these problems were aired and adressed things might start to improve. To blame it on teachers who on the whole put their heart into teaching the adults who don't try in return, is most unfair.
As a teacher who really tries hard and puts in a lot of effort and out of hours assistance to my students I resent the broad brush of complaints. |
this is my experience as well.
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Regardless, seeing industry in terms of culture, and always seeing culture in terms of "us and them", and "if they win we lose" is incredibly immature, and typical of the attitude of the people in power that are holding this country back.
I repreat my of-stated theory that no one ever seems to comment on.
The Hagwon industry is only ten years old. We haven't seen the "Hagwon kids" hit the workforce yet.
How can we judge the effectiveness of the education till that happens.
Next, and more importantly, those kids will be comfortable with foreigners as people, not these wierd "things" that are completely alien, as we are seen at the moment. When the "Hagwon kids" reach positions of power in this country, we will see positive changes here, and perhaps even a bit of sanity. |
' have though this often myself.
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I see real signs of improvement in english here over my 5 years in one small city. Shopkeepers, taxi drivers, restaurateurs -- willing to give it a shot, in stark contrast to when I first got here. Checkout girl in the supermarket a few minutes ago switched into surprisingly good & unselfconscious english with me.
Teachers I teach drive me crazy sometimes, terrified they might make some image-shattering grammar mistake so they just freeze up instead. Ordinary people, on the other hand, seem more intent on just trying to communicate. A growing number are gaining opportunity to travel or have relatives abroad. English is becoming something more useful & interesting to them, & the years of text memorization werent a complete waste of time.
In my recent experience I've met relatively uneducated Vietnamese, Filipinos, & Mexicans who wouldnt shy from trying to express any idea in english. Garbled syntax perhaps but perfectly comprehensible. Bravo. As more Koreans take the plunge & just start swimming, I think we'll see a growing ease. Our efforts arent wasted.Back to top |
this is a nice way to put it. i also enjoy Posco's trumpet's (related) point-of-view, even if the language he uses is too negative to be constructive.
edit: spacing |
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posco's trumpet
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: Beneath the Underdog
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 4:55 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by posco's trumpet on Sun Dec 07, 2003 1:08 am; edited 2 times in total |
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posco's trumpet
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: Beneath the Underdog
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 5:01 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by posco's trumpet on Sun Dec 07, 2003 1:08 am; edited 1 time in total |
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posco's trumpet
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: Beneath the Underdog
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 5:03 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by posco's trumpet on Sun Dec 07, 2003 1:09 am; edited 1 time in total |
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posco's trumpet
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: Beneath the Underdog
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 5:19 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by posco's trumpet on Sun Dec 07, 2003 1:09 am; edited 1 time in total |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 6:14 am Post subject: |
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Posco wrote:
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What is the second clause of that sentence? "{Kim} is saying that all industries are as much of a threat to Korean culture as the quota's defenders CLAIM Hollywood is." You admit he views foreign industries as a threat to Korean culture.
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Yes, a "threat" in the sense that Korean nationalists use the word. As part of his ad absurdum argument, he adopts the language that his opponents use to characterize the issue. He considers the foreign film industry to be part of the "threat", but the whole point of the article is that MORE foreign films should be shown in Korea. I would hardly call this the position of a rabid xenophobe.
Anyway, everyone can read the article and see for themselves whether or not you gave an accurate impression of his views. |
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posco's trumpet
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: Beneath the Underdog
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 6:25 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by posco's trumpet on Sun Dec 07, 2003 1:10 am; edited 1 time in total |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 6:32 am Post subject: |
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| Kim's actual opinion, vis � vis the quotation, is (and always has been) irrelevant. |
Always has been? Nice bit of revisionism, that. You did not say in your original post that his opinions were irrelevant. You posted the quote, and said that this type of view should be relegated to the margin. Anyone reading it would assume that Kim was one of the xenophobes you were attacking, when in fact he seems just as opposed to them as you are. |
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posco's trumpet
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: Beneath the Underdog
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 6:44 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by posco's trumpet on Sun Dec 07, 2003 1:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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mithridates
Joined: 03 Mar 2003
Location: President's office, Korean Space Agency
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 6:52 am Post subject: |
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| Does anybody know the URL of the original article in Korean? I'm having difficulty in finding it... |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 7:01 am Post subject: |
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Posco quoted Dr Kim as saying:
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"We will never see the day when our industry will leave behind the danger of being dominated by foreign movies if it keeps on being obsessed with the screen quota system."
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Kim doesn't want the Korean film market to be DOMINATED by foreign films. Most people in most countries want their film industry to be competitive against other countries' products. But Kim's call for an INCREASE in the entry of foreign films into Korea still makes his views pretty much the polar opposite of those which you tried to misattribute to him with your out-of-context quote. |
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posco's trumpet
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: Beneath the Underdog
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 7:27 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by posco's trumpet on Sun Dec 07, 2003 1:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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On the other hand
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Location: I walk along the avenue
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 7:39 am Post subject: |
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Posco:
In 1988, I, along with most of the Canadian left from liberals all the way to trotskyites, voted against a free trade agreement agreement with the US, in part because I thought the agreement would eventually leave Canada's cultural industries vulnerable to American domination. These days, I'm a bit more undecided about the pros and cons of increased international trade, but I still wouldn't say that my vote in the '88 election makes me a bigot.
And, unlike me and my comrades in '88, Kim is calling for an increase in foreign films shown in his country. |
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posco's trumpet
Joined: 20 Apr 2003
Location: Beneath the Underdog
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| Posted: Sat Dec 06, 2003 8:47 am Post subject: |
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Last edited by posco's trumpet on Sun Dec 07, 2003 1:11 am; edited 1 time in total |
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