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Korean Job Discussion Forums
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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 Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 3:12 am Post subject: |
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Sure, if there's a chance we owe the government money it's a bitch to get non-residency.
I was in Korea for two years then went home for a few months. When getting my visa to come back I had to get a medical check up. I CASUALLY MENTIONED my having been in Korea for two years to a clerk and the hospital instantly told me that I would have to pay the bill for the check up since I was a non-resident for X amount of time.
When/if I go back let's see them try to tax me on the money I made here. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:21 am Post subject: Re: Canadian Non-resident request Denied! |
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| BRawk wrote: |
| I sent off the form to the Canadain Revenue Agency to be deemed a non-resident. I have a bank account for student loans, a storage space, but those are my only connections to Canada. I have been gone for 4 years. |
Storage space might be what doomed you. You might have been too honest and the guy assessing you might have been too picky. Anything that implies an intent to return to Canada (renewing a drivers license) makes you a deemed resident. So admitting you have good in temporary storage might have triggered the ruling. This is why many advise simply not filling out the form. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Sun Apr 27, 2008 5:39 am Post subject: |
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| smedini wrote: |
| the Canadian and Korean governments have a tax treaty...theoretically the Koreans can tell the Canadians what you made while you were there ('cause they know who you are from your passport, very easy to identify you to Ottawa) so the Canadians know what to charge you for tax |
A tax treaty does not mean the governments transmit each other T4 type details. It merely means they agree to not double tax each others citizens. RevCan will not ever contact Korea for records. Just as RevCan has a pretty good idea what waiters make in unrecorded tips, RevCan has a pretty good idea what English teachers make in Korea. They can easily estimate and assess you that way.
But bear in mind, lots of people drop off the tax radar all the time. People save up money for years, people live with a BF/GF who pays the bills, people go abroad to study. |
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Young FRANKenstein
Joined: 02 Oct 2006
Location: Castle Frankenstein (that's FRONKensteen)
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:52 am Post subject: |
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| peppermint wrote: |
I was deemed a non resident.
Mind you, I laid my ties to Korea on thick, mentioned things like cell phone and internet contracts, mentioned that all my worldly possessions really were there, clothes, furniture etc, etc Your ties to Korea have to look stronger than your ties to Canada. |
Having a pet is also a big one, pointing to you as a resident of the country in which you are living. Also, having a credits card or two here helps cement your standing as a resident here. |
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smedini
Joined: 02 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:30 am Post subject: |
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| Jughead wrote: |
| Mea wrote: |
| smedini wrote: |
| And what about when you move home and you send in a tax return for the first year you've been there and someone notices that you've not filed for five years? That's definitely going to bring attention to you. |
From what I can tell, if they question why you suddenly started start filing taxes again after years away, THAT is when you fill out that form. From what I've read online and based on what I was told by an accountant at home before I came, you should really only fill out that form if they ask you to. At that point, you can make your argument about being a non-resident all those years.
| Quote: |
| in answer to your question as to why so many people fill out that form it's so they don't have to worry about it when they move home...how sh*tty it would be to come home with a pocket full of loot only for the government to say that you owe most of it to them in taxes. |
But isn't what you get by filling out that form just an opinion? It's not official and they could still come after you. No one is ever a officially a non-resident. If such a thing existed, I would fill out the form. |
Mea, you are correct! |
I'm sorry to say, Mea is not correct! It's not an "opinion"! You file the form and if you are deemed a non-resident you get an official letter from CRA that says "You have been deemed a non-resident for the tax year 20??"...that's not an opinion, that's fact and legal. The only way they would and could come after you in the future is if they found out you lied about your ties to Canada while you were away.
OP...if you're in doubt, contact CRA anonymously and ask what happens if you fill out the form and are deemed a non-resident. Don't take my word for it, and certainly don't take the word of the people who say it's an opinion of CRA that is not binding if you are accepted as a non-resident.
The taxman will almost always get his due...better to head him off at the pass 
~smedini |
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Sody
Joined: 14 May 2006
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 5:50 am Post subject: |
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Hmm, I spoke with two accountants over this and also conferred with my friend's lawyer. All of them said it wasn't necessary to apply for non-residency at all. When the time came to file for taxes you fill out a non-residency form IF they ask about those years you were away.
Fact: The majority of people do NOT file for non-residency and ARE considered non-residents. But most do not have many ties, especially since many of the teachers here are just recent college grads who do not have houses or cars, etc.
So from what I know Mea is correct. It is NOT necessary to apply for non-residency, even retro-actively.
Now, it may not be necessary - but is it beneficial?
From what I understand, NO one is officially a non-resident, even if they are declared a non-resident. It is merely an assessment that is never legally binding because it can be changed by the CRA at the drop of a hat. You may be declared a non-resident for those years you were away but later forced to pay taxes because of some issue regarding ties, investments, property, whatever, etc.
I have decided like most people not to declare non-residency because I am very sure I won't be taxed.
Obviously, like everyone else on this forum I might be wrong.
As for the OP I honestly believe your property was what caused the problem.
Sody |
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Jughead
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:25 am Post subject: |
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| Sody wrote: |
Hmm, I spoke with two accountants over this and also conferred with my friend's lawyer. All of them said it wasn't necessary to apply for non-residency at all. When the time came to file for taxes you fill out a non-residency form IF they ask about those years you were away.
Fact: The majority of people do NOT file for non-residency and ARE considered non-residents. But most do not have many ties, especially since many of the teachers here are just recent college grads who do not have houses or cars, etc.
So from what I know Mea is correct. It is NOT necessary to apply for non-residency, even retro-actively.
Now, it may not be necessary - but is it beneficial?
From what I understand, NO one is officially a non-resident, even if they are declared a non-resident. It is merely an assessment that is never legally binding because it can be changed by the CRA at the drop of a hat. You may be declared a non-resident for those years you were away but later forced to pay taxes because of some issue regarding ties, investments, property, whatever, etc.
I have decided like most people not to declare non-residency because I am very sure I won't be taxed.
Obviously, like everyone else on this forum I might be wrong.
As for the OP I honestly believe your property was what caused the problem.
Sody |
Sody, you are not wrong, you are in fact..... correct!!!!!
And yes, declaring that you have property in storage is a boneheaded move. How can you argue that you have no intention of coming back to Canada when you have stuff in storage??? That's what it comes down to......your intention to leave Canada forever. You must be able to prove this intent. Changing your mind and coming back later is no problem, but intially the intent to leave the country FOREVER must be there (or reasonably proven). Thus the cutting of ties. |
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Jughead
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:30 am Post subject: |
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| smedini wrote: |
| Jughead wrote: |
| Mea wrote: |
| smedini wrote: |
| And what about when you move home and you send in a tax return for the first year you've been there and someone notices that you've not filed for five years? That's definitely going to bring attention to you. |
From what I can tell, if they question why you suddenly started start filing taxes again after years away, THAT is when you fill out that form. From what I've read online and based on what I was told by an accountant at home before I came, you should really only fill out that form if they ask you to. At that point, you can make your argument about being a non-resident all those years.
| Quote: |
| in answer to your question as to why so many people fill out that form it's so they don't have to worry about it when they move home...how sh*tty it would be to come home with a pocket full of loot only for the government to say that you owe most of it to them in taxes. |
But isn't what you get by filling out that form just an opinion? It's not official and they could still come after you. No one is ever a officially a non-resident. If such a thing existed, I would fill out the form. |
Mea, you are correct! |
I'm sorry to say, Mea is not correct! It's not an "opinion"! You file the form and if you are deemed a non-resident you get an official letter from CRA that says "You have been deemed a non-resident for the tax year 20??"...that's not an opinion, that's fact and legal. The only way they would and could come after you in the future is if they found out you lied about your ties to Canada while you were away.
OP...if you're in doubt, contact CRA anonymously and ask what happens if you fill out the form and are deemed a non-resident. Don't take my word for it, and certainly don't take the word of the people who say it's an opinion of CRA that is not binding if you are accepted as a non-resident.
The taxman will almost always get his due...better to head him off at the pass
~smedini |
From Dictionary.com
deem Audio Help (dēm)
v. deemed, deem�ing, deems
v. tr.
To have as an opinion; judge: deemed it was time for a change.
To regard as; consider: deemed the results unsatisfactory. See Usage Note at as1.
You're pretty young, aren't ya? Your 'official' letter ain't gonna get you far. But whatever helps you sleep at night. |
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smedini
Joined: 02 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:35 am Post subject: |
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| Jughead wrote: |
| smedini wrote: |
| Jughead wrote: |
| Mea wrote: |
| smedini wrote: |
| And what about when you move home and you send in a tax return for the first year you've been there and someone notices that you've not filed for five years? That's definitely going to bring attention to you. |
From what I can tell, if they question why you suddenly started start filing taxes again after years away, THAT is when you fill out that form. From what I've read online and based on what I was told by an accountant at home before I came, you should really only fill out that form if they ask you to. At that point, you can make your argument about being a non-resident all those years.
| Quote: |
| in answer to your question as to why so many people fill out that form it's so they don't have to worry about it when they move home...how sh*tty it would be to come home with a pocket full of loot only for the government to say that you owe most of it to them in taxes. |
But isn't what you get by filling out that form just an opinion? It's not official and they could still come after you. No one is ever a officially a non-resident. If such a thing existed, I would fill out the form. |
Mea, you are correct! |
I'm sorry to say, Mea is not correct! It's not an "opinion"! You file the form and if you are deemed a non-resident you get an official letter from CRA that says "You have been deemed a non-resident for the tax year 20??"...that's not an opinion, that's fact and legal. The only way they would and could come after you in the future is if they found out you lied about your ties to Canada while you were away.
OP...if you're in doubt, contact CRA anonymously and ask what happens if you fill out the form and are deemed a non-resident. Don't take my word for it, and certainly don't take the word of the people who say it's an opinion of CRA that is not binding if you are accepted as a non-resident.
The taxman will almost always get his due...better to head him off at the pass
~smedini |
From Dictionary.com
deem Audio Help (dēm)
v. deemed, deem�ing, deems
v. tr.
To have as an opinion; judge: deemed it was time for a change.
To regard as; consider: deemed the results unsatisfactory. See Usage Note at as1.
You're pretty young, aren't ya? Your 'official' letter ain't gonna get you far. But whatever helps you sleep at night. |
Wow...you can read a dictionary! How brilliant for you. Can you read the CRA's website? No, I'm not young. If you've read any of my posts past the point of where I said this 'opinion' crap is wrong, you would read that I've applied for and have been accepted as a non-resident twice since 1996 and will be doing it again next spring.
OP...stop listening to us bicker back and forth and be proactive...contact CRA on your own and ask the right questions to set your mind at ease.
~smedini |
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Jughead
Joined: 18 Dec 2007
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:38 am Post subject: |
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Yes, that's brilliant for me.
Doesn't quite make sense though that people who shouldn't have an intent to return to Canada are so desperately motivated to make sure that they qualify as non-residents. If you're applying for non-residency three times, you'd think you would be square on their radar. |
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Mea
Joined: 24 Mar 2006
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 11:48 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| I'm sorry to say, Mea is not correct! It's not an "opinion"! You file the form and if you are deemed a non-resident you get an official letter from CRA that says "You have been deemed a non-resident for the tax year 20??"...that's not an opinion, that's fact and legal. The only way they would and could come after you in the future is if they found out you lied about your ties to Canada while you were away. |
But then why does the CRA site use language like...
If you want an opinion about your residency status, complete and submit Form NR74, Determination of Residency Status (Entering Canada).
The Canada Revenue Agency can assist you by providing you with our opinion on your residence status. To request our assistance, complete Form NR74, Determination of Residency Status (Entering Canada) or Form NR73, Determination of Residency Status (Leaving Canada). |
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BRawk
Joined: 14 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:06 pm Post subject: |
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It wasn't the property. The letter didn't mention the property.
The letter was very clear, in fact. I am a factual resident because i do not have to pay Korean taxes on my world income. World income being what I make in Korea and what I make outside of Korea.
I was very clear that I make no income outside of Korea. I bvelieve the opinion is based on the fact that IF i did, I wouldn't be taxed on it in Korea.
But, I'll contact an accountant and see what else I can do. |
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smedini
Joined: 02 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| Jughead wrote: |
Yes, that's brilliant for me.
Doesn't quite make sense though that people who shouldn't have an intent to return to Canada are so desperately motivated to make sure that they qualify as non-residents. If you're applying for non-residency three times, you'd think you would be square on their radar. |
Being a non-resident doesn't mean you don't have an intent to return EVER, it just means while you're away you don't have ties and you shouldn't be paying taxes. That's all...no more, no less. I don't minf being on their radar...all my three appys prove - or will when I do it a third time - is that I relocate overseas every once in a while for a few years at a time as an ESL teacher.
~smedini |
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smedini
Joined: 02 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Mea wrote: |
| Quote: |
| I'm sorry to say, Mea is not correct! It's not an "opinion"! You file the form and if you are deemed a non-resident you get an official letter from CRA that says "You have been deemed a non-resident for the tax year 20??"...that's not an opinion, that's fact and legal. The only way they would and could come after you in the future is if they found out you lied about your ties to Canada while you were away. |
But then why does the CRA site use language like...
If you want an opinion about your residency status, complete and submit Form NR74, Determination of Residency Status (Entering Canada).
The Canada Revenue Agency can assist you by providing you with our opinion on your residence status. To request our assistance, complete Form NR74, Determination of Residency Status (Entering Canada) or Form NR73, Determination of Residency Status (Leaving Canada). |
I don't know why it says that - maybe because it's such a subjective process and they can come back and say "it is" or "it isn't the opinion of CRA that you meet the requirements" so "you are" or "are not determined to be a non-resident for the tax year 20??". But the next paragraph says:
After your residence status has been established, you can get information on your Canadian tax liability and filing requirements on our International and non-resident Web pages.
and when you click on the link for the web page and then on individuals, you get a page that says:
Your tax obligations
As a non-resident of Canada, you pay tax on income you receive from sources in Canada. The type of tax you pay and the requirement to file an income tax return depend on the type of income you receive.
Again, OP, call CRA and find this all out for yourself. I've never had a problem doing this and my advice is to get it straightened out now rather than later. And I, too, think it's your storage that nailed you...the form asks:
You will keep the majority (or a significant part) of such things as your furniture, furnishings, appliances, and utensils) in Canada. Y/N
and
You will have personal possessions in Canada such as your clothing or personal items or pets. Y/N
These are big 'no' questions FFR 
~smedini |
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TheUrbanMyth
Joined: 28 Jan 2003
Location: Retired
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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| smedini wrote: |
[
I'm sorry to say, Mea is not correct! It's not an "opinion"! You file the form and if you are deemed a non-resident you get an official letter from CRA that says "You have been deemed a non-resident for the tax year 20??"...that's not an opinion, that's fact and legal. The only way they would and could come after you in the future is if they found out you lied about your ties to Canada while you were away.
~smedini |
This is completely incorrect. This has been discussed time and again on this board. That letter IS an opinion. That letter is not official it is merely a non-binding opinion. We've gone over this and over this in multiple threads with some people actually calling Revenue Canada and this is what they were told.
It is a non-binding opinion. If Revenue Canada suddenly decides to tax you, that letter means nothing.
Do a search on this board and you will see. Better yet, call them and find out...if you don't mind suddenly popping up on their radar.
Here are a couple of sites. (Thanks to The Lemon)
For the official version.
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/E/pub/tp/it221r3-consolid/it221r3-consolid-e.pdf
Or the quick and easy version
http://wiki.galbijim.com/tax_issues_for_Canadian_expats |
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