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mrgiles
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Location: Seoul
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 Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| People in China have been preparing for a nice party. they have been studying English and painting flags. They have had more shit to deal with in the last 50 years than pretty much any country in the world. Why not give'em a break fella? |
i was going to say "fair enuff, my bad," but then i thought about this a bit longer. the chinese supporters here in seoul were far greater in number than those demonstrating against the olympics - who were mainly trying to draw attention to the deplorable repatriation scheme china takes toward north korean refugees (in effect an order of execution). i don't know how "innocent" these poor chinese students are if they think it fitting to throw rocks at said demonstrators. u also probably know there is more than one china, and i would guess the majority of students over here probably didn't have it that tough over the last 50 years. coming out in support of the country of ur birth? fine. supporting an event that is being used to violently suppress a not-insubstantial number of your fellow countrypeople? i don't know if i'd call that completely innocent. |
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pugwall
Joined: 22 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 7:43 pm Post subject: |
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| mrgiles wrote: |
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| People in China have been preparing for a nice party. they have been studying English and painting flags. They have had more shit to deal with in the last 50 years than pretty much any country in the world. Why not give'em a break fella? |
i was going to say "fair enuff, my bad," but then i thought about this a bit longer. the chinese supporters here in seoul were far greater in number than those demonstrating against the olympics - who were mainly trying to draw attention to the deplorable repatriation scheme china takes toward north korean refugees (in effect an order of execution). i don't know how "innocent" these poor chinese students are if they think it fitting to throw rocks at said demonstrators. u also probably know there is more than one china, and i would guess the majority of students over here probably didn't have it that tough over the last 50 years. coming out in support of the country of ur birth? fine. supporting an event that is being used to violently suppress a not-insubstantial number of your fellow countrypeople? i don't know if i'd call that completely innocent. |
How on earth is the olympics being used to supress people? Everyone in China had it bad. The cultural revolution ravaged a 5000 year old culture leaving people living in fear of their neighbour and forced into the countryside. The privileged had it the worse. The great leap forward was just as bad. Coming on man, I know there is a lot of stuff in the media and hype around at the moment but scowling at random people on the subway for doing nothing is just not cool and not the kind of world any of us would like to live in. By your same rationale would you scour at a Burmese person or a Sudanese person? Think a lot of people need to be testing their preconceptions here or this world could get nasty. |
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mrgiles
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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geez pugwall, take a deep breath or two, sweetie. ur hardline stance in regards to facial expressions is perhaps a tad extreme. and ur reply to my post seems to miss the actual point i was trying to convey. sorry if it's a little subtle.
the chinese government have been very anxious to use their hosting of the olympics as an opportunity for some good pr spin. this is understandable. what i find offensive is the imprisonment and silencing of opposing voices (chinese voices, mind u) recently - a deliberate plan to present a united front throughout china. now, there have been some reports of chinese deaths perpetrated by tibetans. if this is the case, this is terrible. however, despite my belief that sometimes propaganda is necessary to help establish a beneficial state (as a way of trying to counter external propaganda), there needs to be international transparency of reporting as well. this is clearly not the case in china, and you ought to know this. i'm sure u do.
when it was first announced that beijing wd host the olympics, i was all for it. i thought it was a good chance for china to help themselves, and for things to improve even more. however, the actions of the chinese government ever since then have been terrible in a number of important ways, and for me, this has marred the whole thing. to the point that i narrowed my eyes at some people demonstrating their support for the actions of their government. heinous tho my act may have been, in my mind, i feel there is at least a small justification for it.
as for people in burma and darfur, i'm sure they'd scowl at people supporting the state that has played a major role in making sure their basic human rights are denied, too.
i would scowl at a burmese person that was supporting their generals just as hard. i might even sneer at them. but that's me, i'm violent by nature. |
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pugwall
Joined: 22 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Mon Apr 28, 2008 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| mrgiles wrote: |
geez pugwall, take a deep breath or two, sweetie. ur hardline stance in regards to facial expressions is perhaps a tad extreme. and ur reply to my post seems to miss the actual point i was trying to convey. sorry if it's a little subtle.
the chinese government have been very anxious to use their hosting of the olympics as an opportunity for some good pr spin. this is understandable. what i find offensive is the imprisonment and silencing of opposing voices (chinese voices, mind u) recently - a deliberate plan to present a united front throughout china. now, there have been some reports of chinese deaths perpetrated by tibetans. if this is the case, this is terrible. however, despite my belief that sometimes propaganda is necessary to help establish a beneficial state (as a way of trying to counter external propaganda), there needs to be international transparency of reporting as well. this is clearly not the case in china, and you ought to know this. i'm sure u do.
when it was first announced that beijing wd host the olympics, i was all for it. i thought it was a good chance for china to help themselves, and for things to improve even more. however, the actions of the chinese government ever since then have been terrible in a number of important ways, and for me, this has marred the whole thing. to the point that i narrowed my eyes at some people demonstrating their support for the actions of their government. heinous tho my act may have been, in my mind, i feel there is at least a small justification for it.
as for people in burma and darfur, i'm sure they'd scowl at people supporting the state that has played a major role in making sure their basic human rights are denied, too.
i would scowl at a burmese person that was supporting their generals just as hard. i might even sneer at them. but that's me, i'm violent by nature. |
I'm as cool as a cucumber and as happy as a Communist party cadre with a new stuffed brown envelope. The realy was 99% with a few scuffles rather than the Nuremberg/Dunblane massacre depicted elsewhere. Overwhelming majority were there to have a good time and being proud of their countries achievments. I hate flag waving of any kind but each to their own. Chinese people are not brainwashed or held captive. This is not the 1970's, they are not suffering from Stockholm Syndrome. Search the blogosphere and find translations from Chinese forums, loads of different voices and opinions. Why don't you ask for a watercolour set for your birthday or invest in some nice bath salts from Body shop? Taking out your frustrations on someone for just having a flag in their hands is not worth it. |
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mrgiles
Joined: 09 Jul 2007
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 4:23 pm Post subject: |
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| dude, u're boring me now. if u're not going to respond to the main thrusts of my argument, i don't really see the point in continuing this. ur less-than-elegant writing style makes it difficult for my poor intellect to entirely grasp what points u're trying to make anyway. |
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pugwall
Joined: 22 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Tue Apr 29, 2008 5:35 pm Post subject: |
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| mrgiles wrote: |
| dude, u're boring me now. if u're not going to respond to the main thrusts of my argument, i don't really see the point in continuing this. ur less-than-elegant writing style makes it difficult for my poor intellect to entirely grasp what points u're trying to make anyway. |
Think the main point is keep your frustrations for politicians and not for innocent people. I did not midn the 'we don't hate Chinese people but Chinese government'line but you have taken it to another level. |
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