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the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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 Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
| There is no evidence that Hitler believed in Krishna or Vishnu as God. The Mayavadi impersonalist philosophers (worse than atheists) also us. |
The combination of the swastika and the adoption of the word aryan is proof positive.
I suspect he even used ghee to slick back his hair. |
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Omkara
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Location: USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 6:51 pm Post subject: |
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But does using ghee to slick one's back hair imply that I believe in evolution and want to exterminate jews?
I mean, I have no problem with jews. But I do have a problem with backhair. (I hate people who think that having no backhair means that they are "more evolved"!)
I am not an ape! Hari Hitler! Hitler hari! Hari hari! Hitler Hitler! Fzig Jaya! Jaya! |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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Just become God conscious and all your problems are solved.
Hard-core atheists believe that there is no personal God.
Soft-core atheists like Dawkins, Hitchens, and Harris claim that all faith is irrational, defining "faith" narrowly as "belief without evidence"...
Because religions tend to lack scientifically accessible evidence they are deemed irrational.
However, the claim that science is the most authoritative way to truth also constitutes a "belief without evidence".
So, if all faith is irrational, then the new atheists are also irrational.
The new atheists also attack the venerable liberal principle that the faith of others should be respected (not appreciating the irony that they've been able to advance their own uncritical belief in scientism and scientific naturalism because of modern liberal tolerance of "faith".)
The article that I've been paraphrasing also notes that new atheists suffer from a bad case of "explanatory monism" - the "reductionist postulate" that there is "only one valid explanatory slot available to make sense of things"...
(eg: Dennett and Dawkins "assume that since we can now understand morality and religion in terms of evolutionary biology, theological explanation is superfluous. I argue instead that both theology and evolutionary science can contribute to our understanding."
In God and the New Atheism I show that that the new atheists are as literalist in their understanding of scriptures and theology as are the anti-Darwinian religious fundamentalists they oppose. The level of challenge they pose to contemporary theology is glaringly low in comparison with serious atheists such as Feuerbach, Marx, and Nietzsche who at least knew enough about religious thought to engage theologians of the stature of Karl Barth, Paul Tillich, or Karl Rahner.
http://blog.beliefnet.com/godspolitics/2008/04/john-f-haught-on-the-new-softc.html
What to speak of the more sophisticated Vedic devotional philosophy expounded by Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada ?....
Even when gravely ill in his last days he preached strongly against atheist "rascals":
http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/iskcon-internal/244063-srila-prabhupada-smashes-rascal-scientists.html |
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the_beaver
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
Just become God conscious and all your problems are solved.
Hard-core atheists believe that there is no personal God.
Soft-core atheists like Dawkins, Hitchens, and Harris claim that all faith is irrational, defining "faith" narrowly as "belief without evidence"...
Because religions tend to lack scientifically accessible evidence they are deemed irrational.
However, the claim that science is the most authoritative way to truth also constitutes a "belief without evidence".
So, if all faith is irrational, then the new atheists are also irrational.
The new atheists also attack the venerable liberal principle that the faith of others should be respected (not appreciating the irony that they've been able to advance their own uncritical belief in scientism and scientific naturalism because of modern liberal tolerance of "faith".)
The article that I've been paraphrasing also notes that new atheists suffer from a bad case of "explanatory monism" - the "reductionist postulate" that there is "only one valid explanatory slot available to make sense of things"...
(eg: Dennett and Dawkins "assume that since we can now understand morality and religion in terms of evolutionary biology, theological explanation is superfluous. I argue instead that both theology and evolutionary science can contribute to our understanding."
In God and the New Atheism I show that that the new atheists are as literalist in their understanding of scriptures and theology as are the anti-Darwinian religious fundamentalists they oppose. The level of challenge they pose to contemporary theology is glaringly low in comparison with serious atheists such as Feuerbach, Marx, and Nietzsche who at least knew enough about religious thought to engage theologians of the stature of Karl Barth, Paul Tillich, or Karl Rahner.
http://blog.beliefnet.com/godspolitics/2008/04/john-f-haught-on-the-new-softc.html
What to speak of the more sophisticated Vedic devotional philosophy expounded by Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada ?....
Even when gravely ill in his last days he preached strongly against atheist "rascals":
http://www.indiadivine.org/audarya/iskcon-internal/244063-srila-prabhupada-smashes-rascal-scientists.html |
You nazis are all alike. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 7:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
However, the claim that science is the most authoritative way to truth also constitutes a "belief without evidence". |
Yes, Rteacher we could all be brains in jars but science works out the consistencies of our existence your religion reveals nothing, tells us nothing, discovers nothing, gives us nothing. It does not lead in to a new world other than one of woolly thinking. God conscious? Is it really a step up from being a junkie?
Oh and when will retract your nonsense about Hitler since you are wrong? |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:20 pm Post subject: |
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Vedic culture has given the world much more than any atheistic scientist has - and I'm likely correct about Hitler's motivation.
Don't assume that the "brights" who post evolutionist propaganda sites and write books promoting atheism are necessarily right, while the unlimitedly bright speaker of Bhagavad-gita must be wrong.
Offensive "evolutionists" may just end up associating with Hitler in their next life ...  |
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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| Posted: Wed Apr 30, 2008 11:55 pm Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
Vedic culture has given the world much more than any atheistic scientist has - and I'm likely correct about Hitler's motivation.
Don't assume that the "brights" who post evolutionist propaganda sites and write books promoting atheism are necessarily right, while the unlimitedly bright speaker of Bhagavad-gita must be wrong.
Offensive "evolutionists" may just end up associating with Hitler in their next life ... |
Summation:
Paragraph 1: wild speculation
Paragraph 2: confrontation
Paragraph 3: threat
Where do I sign up for your way of life oh great convincer? |
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swigs
Joined: 20 Apr 2008
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 2:00 am Post subject: |
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do you know if jars of clay are in the soundtrack? 
I would probably watch exciled... the music is awesome
http://youtube.com/watch?v=MzANUHNXZM0 |
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Omkara
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 2:44 am Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
Vedic culture has given the world much more than any atheistic scientist has - and I'm likely correct about Hitler's motivation.
Don't assume that the "brights" who post evolutionist propaganda sites and write books promoting atheism are necessarily right, while the unlimitedly bright speaker of Bhagavad-gita must be wrong.
Offensive "evolutionists" may just end up associating with Hitler in their next life ... |
Why is "atheist" such a negative term for you, RTeacher? It is simply someone who does not use the idea of god in their thinking about reality.
Now you say that the speaker of the Bhagavad-gita is "unlimitedly bright." This kind of reading makes me crazy. When I was living in the ashram, I was so disappointed with the swami who taught us the gita. He taught it as an infallible document that was correct in its every word. Yet, his reading was sooooooo shallow.
Man, there is much to be gained from that beautiful book, the gita; just as there is much to be gained from reading the bible. But, there is infinite danger in assuming that these kinds of text are "unlimitedly bright." It is foolish reading such as this that creates the wholesale negation of these texts by many of the "brights."
Now, when we assume that every line in a text is unlimitedly true and bright, then, what happens when we discover some thing which contradicts it which we have great and well-founded evidence for? Do we negate the new discovery? Or the "unlimitedly bright" text? Do we reject a theory, such as evolution, for contradicting our sacred cows?
We must learn to read better. To assume that the Bible, the Gita, the Koran, or any other text is "unlimitedly bright" leads to tremendous strife, to say nothing of the great wisdom which is lost in the text for such an obtuse reading. Worshipping a text, yes, loses us wisdom.
One of the most interesting stories in the Bible is in fact genesis--read metaphorically. Read literally, it is among the most stupid.
Now, the gita holds great and immortal wisdom. It indicates many profound methods of meditation. But, like any man-written text, it is FALLIBLE. |
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Justin Hale
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Location: the Straight Talk Express
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 2:53 am Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
My posting that was not dispositive to the truth or falsity of evolution theory - merely to indicate that it was apparently a primary motivating factor - much more so than Christianity - in Hitler's genocidal agenda.
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Even if those claims are true, which of course they aren't, it is meaningless discourse.
1. Belief in X is dangerous
2. Therefore X is false
is pathetic reasoning. If the logical fallacy in 1 and 2 above is not your position, I fail to see what good can come from the topic. |
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uberscheisse
Joined: 02 Dec 2003
Location: japan is better than korea.
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 3:33 am Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
The new atheists also attack the venerable liberal principle that the faith of others should be respected (not appreciating the irony that they've been able to advance their own uncritical belief in scientism and scientific naturalism because of modern liberal tolerance of "faith".)
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bullshit.
respect, as far as not attempting to get in the way of some nutjob doing his personal thing, well that is still intact from the atheist community.
but then again, that's all anyone deserves.
if i played croquet in a dress with halibut duct-taped to my head in my front yard, i would be worthy of the respect of being allowed to do my thing as long as it didn't affect anyone.
but that wouldn't stop it from being your right to vocally state "wow, that guy is a ridiculous fruitcake, almost as much as that other fruitcake who believes that a blue barbapapa made everything."
i may even make the papers. doesn't mean i'm being disrespected. i think your faith is moronic. i will defend to the death your right to practice it. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 4:04 am Post subject: |
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Having made a case that evolution theory can have dangerous consequences when misused by power-hungry people, the logical inference is not that it is necessarily false, but that its materialistic worldview in effect serves to devalue various "weaker" forms of life - providing a "scientific" might-makes-right type of rationale.
Vedic culture - and the original core values of every religion - promotes the sanctity of all life (and giving protection for the weak.)
God is not subject to any human defects or limitations, so the words of God stated in revealed scriptures are absolutely true, but they can be misused and misinterpreted by fallible humans.
That's why the Vedic system utilizes pure devotees in disciplic succession from the original source of all knowledge.
Such great souls are completely devoid of any material motivation or cheating propensity and desire only to assist their own spritual master's work to please God. |
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uberscheisse
Joined: 02 Dec 2003
Location: japan is better than korea.
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 4:39 am Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
That's why the Vedic system utilizes pure devotees in disciplic succession from the original source of all knowledge.
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i'm sure this isn't the reason for the caste system, is it? or did vedic scholars one day somehow get a translation of "origin of species" and run with that a little too much?
| Rteacher wrote: |
God is not subject to any human defects or limitations, so the words of God stated in revealed scriptures are absolutely true, but they can be misused and misinterpreted by fallible humans.
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the stories in scripture were also committed to parchment by (drum roll...) fallible humans.
"land bridge from tamil nadu to sri lanka? hm, i guess the big blue parade float guy did it!"
case closed. |
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mindmetoo
Joined: 02 Feb 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 5:13 am Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
| Having made a case that evolution theory can have dangerous consequences when misused by power-hungry people |
First, you haven't. You've not given any examples where Hitler has cited anything from origin of species or evolutionary theory. You yourself are incapable of even pointing to any passages in Origin of Species or any of Darwin's scientific writings that make you case.
Hitler makes references to ideas of racial superiority and ideas of breeding that have been around for thousands of years. This ideas were over turned by evolution, not supported by it. You've demonstrated from the beginning you know next to nothing about what evolutionary theory really states. Good lord it took 400+ pages of debate to get you to grasp that evolution is not a theory about the origins of life. We're suddenly to believe YOU are an authority on how evolutionary theory has informed genocide? Geez. Then I guess I'm an authority on Krishna because I read something once.
As noted a dozen times. Hitler justified his beliefs appealing to god and the writings of Martin Luther. The holocaust was carried out by Christians who believed they were doing god's work. The carnage in Yugoslavia was carried out by Christians who believed they were doing god's work. The slaughter Hindus visited upon Muslims during the partition was carried about by theists believing they were doing god's work.
Second, as we've seen, your own faith can and HAS been twisted for ill end. Children raped while their parents were led to believe they were on a holy missions selling flowers in airports.
Any idea can be twisted.
But hey, if you really believe Darwin was a necessary component of the holocaust, what do the major Jewish organizations have to say about Stein's lil thesis?
| Quote: |
| Vedic culture - and the original core values of every religion - promotes the sanctity of all life (and giving protection for the weak.) |
I'm sure the people smashing the heads apart of muslim babies during the partition would have told you that with a straight face.
| Quote: |
| Vedic culture has given the world much more than any atheistic scientist has - and I'm likely correct about Hitler's motivation. |
Hmmm science has given us clean water, safe food, antibiotics, and vaccinations. And the computer you're using. Vedic culture has given us... ummm... you once claimed they gave us the insight that cow poop can be used as soap. Golly. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 5:31 am Post subject: |
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The Vedas were compiled (in Sanskrit) over 5000 years ago by the empowered literary incarnation of God, Sri Vyasa deva.
Before then, they were transmitted by oral tradition, as humans in previous cosmic ages had much better memories (and lived much longer.)
Hitler's misuse - and England's convenient use - of the "Aryan" idea is another example of a "theory" propagated with very little evidence to support it.
http://www.stephen-knapp.com/the_aryan_invasion_history_or_politics.htm
The caste system is a materialistic corruption of the varnashrama Vedic social system of four social divisions and four spiritual orders created by God for balenced, cooperative spiritual and material progress. The original swastika symbol represented those eight divisions.
http://www.veda.krishna.com/encyclopedia/varnasrama.htm
The original meaning of Aryan was a noble, spiritually progressive person who followed the principles of varnashrama dharma.
Here is how it is defined in the Srimad Bhagavatam:
My dear Lord, one's occupational duty is instructed in Srimad-Bhagavatam and Bhagavad-gita according to Your point of view, which never deviates from the highest goal of life. Those who follow their occupational duties under Your supervision, being equal to all living entities, moving and nonmoving, and not considering high and low, are called Aryans. Such Aryans worship You, the Supreme Personality of Godhead. (SB 6.16.43)
http://www.veda.krishna.com/encyclopedia/vedicsystem.htm#5
It was Hitler - and other Nazi's - under the influence of nationalism combined with Darwinism - who materialistically conceived of it in terms of race and domination. |
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