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sumfunu
Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Location: Canada
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 Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 3:49 pm Post subject: Are university jobs headed into the _______? |
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I just viewed a job advert. on the Korean job board from a national university in Korea " boasting " of a starting salary of 2.2 million for a Ph.D and 1.7 mil. for an M.A.? WTF!? I left Korea nearly 3 years ago and am always pondering going back, but is this indicative of how administrators are pushing down the salary and benefits for their
" foreign " faculty? One would hope that this is an isolated example. Views and comments on this topic from current " foreign " faculty at Korean universities most appreciated. Thanks in advance. |
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mountainous
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 6:08 pm Post subject: |
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It might be a UNIGWON.
Recruiters use the term "university" loosely as they know FTs are looking for "university" jobs. |
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marlow
Joined: 06 Feb 2005
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 6:22 pm Post subject: |
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| They want to pay a Ph.D. $25,000 per year? |
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bassexpander
Joined: 13 Sep 2007
Location: Someplace you'd rather be.
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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A lot of these schools know they aren't going to get Ph.D candidates. They've known this for years.
What they're trying to do is drive down the pay for the MA's they might interview, and in more truth, the BA's they know they will probably end up hiring.
This ad has absolutely NOTHING to do with actually hiring a Ph.D.
It's all about paying less for what they will be able to hire (BA people). |
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Rumple
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 7:13 pm Post subject: |
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Well, it isn't like an American uni job. Yeah, you might make $60,000 a year (or more, depending on your degree and level of experience), but you're also teaching more classes, doing a ton of research, serving on committees, etc, generally working 10 hours a day.
$25,000 for 12 hours of classes a week and 5 months paid vacation is about the same level of compensation, per hour, IMO. |
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mountainous
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Rumple wrote: |
Well, it isn't like an American uni job. Yeah, you might make $60,000 a year (or more, depending on your degree and level of experience), but you're also teaching more classes, doing a ton of research, serving on committees, etc, generally working 10 hours a day.
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Huh? Let's use a professor in the UC system as an example. The Prof teaches an average of 1 hour a day and is gone by 4PM. Many Profs in the USA do research because they are passionate about their research. That's why they become Professors!
Comparing an EFL Prof in Korea to a PhD Prof in the USA is ...apples 'n' oranges. |
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crazy_arcade
Joined: 05 Nov 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 8:24 pm Post subject: |
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| I just took a look at the ad and I think it's simply poorly worded. |
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Adventurer
Joined: 28 Jan 2006
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| I think it is not uncommon to see a uni gig at around 2.1 million from what I've heard, but if you get overtime then you make for it. I don't think university jobs pay that much, but the benefits are great. |
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Rumple
Joined: 19 Sep 2007
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| mountainous wrote: |
| Rumple wrote: |
Well, it isn't like an American uni job. Yeah, you might make $60,000 a year (or more, depending on your degree and level of experience), but you're also teaching more classes, doing a ton of research, serving on committees, etc, generally working 10 hours a day.
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Huh? Let's use a professor in the UC system as an example. The Prof teaches an average of 1 hour a day and is gone by 4PM. Many Profs in the USA do research because they are passionate about their research. That's why they become Professors! |
You've got an undergraduate's view of how things work in academia, and your numbers are off.
| mountainous wrote: |
| Comparing an EFL Prof in Korea to a PhD Prof in the USA is ...apples 'n' oranges. |
I'm not comparing the jobs. I'm comparing how much they make per hour, which appears about the same. |
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mountainous
Joined: 04 Sep 2007
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Thu May 01, 2008 10:05 pm Post subject: |
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| Rumple wrote: |
| mountainous wrote: |
| Rumple wrote: |
Well, it isn't like an American uni job. Yeah, you might make $60,000 a year (or more, depending on your degree and level of experience), but you're also teaching more classes, doing a ton of research, serving on committees, etc, generally working 10 hours a day.
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Huh? Let's use a professor in the UC system as an example. The Prof teaches an average of 1 hour a day and is gone by 4PM. Many Profs in the USA do research because they are passionate about their research. That's why they become Professors! |
You've got an undergraduate's view of how things work in academia, and your numbers are off.
| mountainous wrote: |
| Comparing an EFL Prof in Korea to a PhD Prof in the USA is ...apples 'n' oranges. |
I'm not comparing the jobs. I'm comparing how much they make per hour, which appears about the same. |
How many college Profs in the USA calculate their hourly wage? lmao 
A PROFESSOR in the USA vs. a "professor" in korea, there's no comparison to make... |
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aalais
Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Location: Bundang
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| mountainous wrote: |
| Many Profs in the USA do research because they are passionate about their research. That's why they become Professors! |
Ahahah! Many profs in the USA do research because they would like to get tenure, because they would like to not get fired at the end of the year, and because they would like to feed their families, which is not super possible if you're a no-benefits adjunct trying to live in Boston or NY or DC. That's why they call it "publish or perish." |
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earthbound14
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 1:46 am Post subject: |
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| Rumple wrote: |
Well, it isn't like an American uni job. Yeah, you might make $60,000 a year (or more, depending on your degree and level of experience), but you're also teaching more classes, doing a ton of research, serving on committees, etc, generally working 10 hours a day.
$25,000 for 12 hours of classes a week and 5 months paid vacation is about the same level of compensation, per hour, IMO. |
25,000 for 12 hours of work...ok not bad, you're right. But then you factor in that you came to Korea and left a far nicer place, you need to pay living expenses in Seoul (cause that's where most of us work) which are much higher than most other OECD countries (based on average income), you legally can't work for anyone else and you will get 0 respect for your work once you go home. Basically this is a dead end job and Universities have a very hard time filling their positions with qualified instructors. So while this might not be bad, it's clearly not good enough given the situation. Universities tend to behave much in the same way hogwans do, they try to drive down the wages by acting as if they don't really need you and they really can get someone better. The fact is they can't and they know it, they just don't want to pay us what they should if they were honest about the situation. |
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earthbound14
Joined: 23 Jan 2007
Location: seoul
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| Posted: Fri May 02, 2008 2:01 am Post subject: |
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Even the Korean profs are having a hard time. New profs simply can't get tenure positions, most of them end up working for low wages at multiple schools as part time lecturers. One of my friends has his PHD in English (although the poor guy can hardly make a sentence...but that's another story) and he works at a hugwon at night and two different universities during the day. The poor guy does nothing but work in an attempt to get a head (at least he can legally do so though). He logs as many hours driving every week as he does teaching at our university. This situation was in the news a while back when a prof killed themself due to stress and depression. It's a pretty silly situation when the president of our school has his own driver for his Mercedes.
O well, at least we can just leave. |
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marlow
Joined: 06 Feb 2005
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PRagic
Joined: 24 Feb 2006
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| Posted: Sat May 03, 2008 12:31 am Post subject: |
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Depends on your field and whether or not you can get a true university position. With a Ph.D., 60K+ year for 2-class load jobs are to be had in Seoul. The regular other stuff applies (publishing, meetings...), but you do get fully paid summers and winters off.
In English or TESL? Haven't heard of any, though. If anyone has, let us know.
For Ph.D.s, none of the jobs posted on Dave's are worth it. Check out some of the offers that pop up on the Chronicle of Higher Education, or on individual university web sites. That's where the 'real' positions are being advertised. It remains to be seen just how far someone can go, though. Associate? Probably. Full Professor? Hmmm. Have to get back to you in a few years on that one.
Keep on fighting the good fight. |
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