Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Manticore]

I need to give you the background scenario to put my woes into perspective: (I wish it were less complicated)

I am a South African. This is my first Korea/ESL experience. About 2 months ago, in SA, through an agency, I accepted a job for an academy for elementary + middle school kids, 2.1mil, the usual deal. It is a new school, in Ulsan, and I would be the first foreign teacher. The boss asked via email if I was interested in doing extra work for more money and if I would teach kindy for one month as "on the job training". I expressed interest in the former and agreed to the latter.

OK so I arrive early April. A few things are made known to me by my boss. His school is not yet built. It will be "in one month" (presently he is planning to open it near the end of this month). How did I get a visa then? He registered me with his previous school, which I have not seen, which he is selling. He tells me (after I probe him later) that he has permission from immigration, education and whichever relevant authority for me to work temporarily and the kindy, and not his school, (not defined in my contract). So things are legal and April passes.

I need to mention: my kindy hours are 2 per day, 4 days a week. At the moment I am getting 2.1mil for kindy. He plans to pay me 400 000 for kindy on top of my 2.1mil for his school when I work at both schools.

I don't like kindy, it is a headache and not what I signed up for. Furthermore, he makes it clear to me he wants me to continue kindy for the duration of my contract with his school. His reasons are:
1) he misunderstood that I agreed to this when I was in SA, and chose me because he wants a teacher to do both jobs. He recognizes this as misunderstanding now.
2) The director of the kindy is a substantial shareholder in his school, she may well pull out if I drop out (the kindy REALLY NEED a foreign teacher & my boss promised them one).
3) If I don't teach kindy, he claims his and his school to be's reputation will be irrevocably damaged, he will not get pupils, and his school won't even open.

So I said last week: "pay me 30 000/hr (I asked some teachers what they thought is right for extra work on a permanent basis) and I'll do kindy." He said "Are you insane? No ways." The kindy are willing to up my pay to 17500/hr, maybe 20 000. At that rate it is not enough of a compromise for me, so I said "That's OK, I won't do kindy, I'll teach at your school - elem+mid kids - AS WAS AGREED AND SIGNED IN THE CONTRACT."

While I can tolerate kindy now as it's the only work I'm doing, I don't how I'll handle kindy from 10am - 1pm then 2pm - 9pm at his school. So I said I'll do kindy in May to help him out, thereafter I may drop it. He won't have this. My agent, who has been helpful and supportive through all this, recommends asking for a 3 month contract with kindy at 21875/hr (700 000/month extra for kindy), subject to renegotiation after the 3 months.

This would be good for me - I'd get to see how I handle both, and if I wanted to, could drop kindy if it was too much. But my boss is adamant I do kindy. He even went so far as to say, "if you do not do kindy as well as my school, I will have to find another teacher, and then you are going home." (My agent and I fail to see how he can fire me for refusing to do work outside of the contract. Also my agent is convinced my boss' conduct is strewn with illegalities).

Phew. So that's about it. If I could bail on this, without hassles, I would, but my agent thinks I will probably have to spend time with the Korean labor court - not what I came to Korea for. And the agencies offices are in the Seoul area, nowhere near me. I actually like my boss, and his school promises to be nice, I like this city too. He likes me (I dunno how much now) and wants me to stay on - on his terms though. His business sense and expectations are just wacky though.

So I'm hoping for some feedback/advice/someone to reflect back to me what my options are, or anything else helpful. I feel like I may have left details out but I think that the main issues are present. Feel free to ask questions.

Thank you.

[shifty]

Your boss willfully misled you, but nothing you can say or do will make him own up.

You could make flat statements such as challenging him to find a new teacher (he can't) who would do both jobs. Be rude and scathing and don't be tempted to argue rationally. Talk at and never with him.

Kindy is a torrid hell and worse for a new teacher, so you're gonna have to extricate yourself from that. After payday, refuse to teach further,
hopefully he will fire you and then you make a beeline for immi.

This does serve as a reminder that startups are to be avoided.

You seem very lucid and impressive for a newbie and I hope that things go your way, but I doubt if there'll be a soft landing, wish I could help.

[jbpatlanta]

A couple of things.

First, have you gotten your ARC card yet. If not push hard and get it. Every place that you have permission to work will have to be listed on the back. If it is not listed then you don't have permission to work there.

Second, If the kindy is an actual kindergarten and not part of a language school it is ilegal for you to work there. I personally called immigration about this matter and asked them. No one with a E2 visa can work at a kindergarten (not part of a language school) full time or part time.

If it were me I would tell your boss to give you an extra 1.500.000 an month for the kindy. Tell him if he doesn't you will call the Korean labor board and immigration. He will get fined and the kindy owner will get fined. You might also get fined so think hard about this one first. I had a friend that turned himself in for working illegally. Immy did not fine him. They allowed him to find another job teaching without any hassles. But this depends on how the immy officer feels when you talk to him/her.

If you do this make sure you can afford a hotel or airfare out of the country if you need it.

Every kindy I know of pays at least 45.000 hour for a native speaking teacher. I work at several myself.

And just a note for you. Hagwon bosses don't really stick to contracts they have signed. However the labor board does. So get anything your boss tells you or offers you in writing and signed.

If you need more advice PM me.

[ttompatz]

Working at the kindy as described in your opening is, unless noted by immigration on your ARC, ILLEGAL.

This situation is NOT going to get better for you AND it required your illegally working at 2 places.

This is one of the few times I will advocate saving your money and doing a midnight run when it is convenient for you.

.

[Hotpants]

Yet another story of why it's not a good idea to sign a contract with a hagwon through a third party recruiter while living on the other side of the world...

...Also another story of how, even when you've not signed a contract through a third party recruiter while living on the other side of the world, you can still end up teaching in an entirely different role to that you signed up for in your initial contract.

I don't think this is about whether you 'like' your boss or not. You don't like your job and are being messed around. Either stick with it or find another job. The down side of this however, is that even though leaving the job won't be your fault, the new visa regs meaning that you have to go through all the visa application hoops again and are another reason why they don't favor the foreign worker at all.

Hope you move on to better times.

[meangradin]

where are you in Ulsan?

Ulsan is a wealthy city, and i know many E-2's who make 50,000/hour for extra work at kindies, so your request for 35,000 is very reasonable. Also, his claim to replace you with another a teacher is laughable, as Ulsan schools/recruiters have alway had a hard time drawing potential teachers.

Anyway, you have to get your ARC. If you don't have it by now, then I would be very worried.

Why don't you send me a pm, and I'll call you.

[Manticore]

double post sorry

meangradin I'm in Hogye. It's kinda far away from everthing. Went into Jung-gu today, made me realize I am really not central at all

Can't PM because I haven't written 25 posts... :/

[Manticore]

Thanks to all who replied.

I posted this topic feeling rather desperate. One hour ago my boss called and said the kindy would agree to pay me 25 000/hr. For a 32 hr month this is 800 000/month. I said that would be good and I would like to make an additional contract with the kindy to finalize the agreement.

Regarding the legality of teaching at a kindergarten that is not part of a language institute - my agency had also pointed out that this is illegal. My boss assures me he has permission from the relevant authorities. (Any pointers on what I can quiz him on to check this?) Posters here point out it is illegal. I'm inclined to believe you guys. So, is there a way to work at a kindy like I am legally, or is it just flat-out illegal?

About pay - my boss and kindy are seemingly stingy about this - but 800 000/month is good enough for me; this is my first year as an ESL teacher here. I am going to try for a 3 month renewable/renegotiable contract with the kindy. So if kindy is utter hell in the long term I can always up the pay or choose not to renew it. I don't think this will fly though - they want me for the year with no possibility of withdrawal. This may become a point of contention.

I do not yet have my ARC. My boss is away in another city sorting out things for his school's opening. I have my medical test results, just waiting for the 15th to visit immigration. The bugger hasn't returned my degree and other documents yet either. He says immigration kept my degree, which I think is BS.

Those saying drop and run - if I knew for a fact that I could that without fines and major delays, I would. (And grab a public school job!). I want to "want to" stay on in the hope that things will stabilize. I mean, I will be pretty pleased with earning 2.9mil a month. However, my boss telling me that if I don't teach kindy, a contract never even drawn up, he will fire me, is not a condition I like. Fundamentally, it's unreasonable.

[icicle]

From what you have just posted it does seem like a classic case of being set up to be ripped off ...

Why do you have to wait until the 15th to go to immigration and get your ARC?

I know from last time that I didn't get my health book etc until after I had my ARC because the same number was used on both documents.
And schools would normally be keen to get it all sorted out - so that you were correctly legal ... I started at a hagwon mid last week and am doing the health check and immigration things to get the ARC next week ...

Have you been paid anything yet?

I think from all that you have said that I would take much of what he says as worth as much as a grain of salt ... Especially when he talks about the kindergarten work with another employer as being legal ....
When you don't even have your ARC yet ... and need specific approval from Immigration (which is noted on the back of your ARC) to work for another employer ... (So even if it is legal to work for that specific Kindergarten ... which is doubtful... It is not legal for you to work there at the moment without permission from Immigration which will be given to you .. and noted on the ARC ... Not just told to your employer ...

I think that your best chance for a positive outcome in this is probably to go and talk to immigration yourself ... Even if it just starts with a request for your diplomas that your employer has told you they have (I doubt that ... because keeping diplomas is something which employers have used to stop people from being able to get another job) .. But with the new system there are ways for employers to verify your degree which don't need the diplomas so you are not necessarily trapped in this job ...

Icicle

[jbpatlanta]

[ED209]

[CentralCali]

[moosehead]

[Hotpants]

Director is witholding degree...You've been messed around with hours, classes and pay...No guesses that your ARC will not have the kindy address stamped on it...

The red flags are just everywhere. As everybody is basically saying, get out NOW. Forget the money. This is not worth 800,000!

[Easter Clark]