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Omkara
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Location: USA
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Cheonmunka
Joined: 04 Jun 2004
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 Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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Personally, I deeply believe in God. I felt once that he came to me.
The Bible (a man-made construct ) does have some well-written timeless common sense dictates and psalms, but it is often extraneous. I suppose that's why (the words of God) are revised and re-written so often.
My personal belief in God already had and still has me doing the best I can without hurting anyone.
Yet, I am not a Christian. I refuse to go somewhere on my hands and knees and pray in a place with gold eagles and other idols on the altars and on the walls.
Shit, the danger of idolatry is written in the Bible very clearly as a terrible sin yet all the churches have idols and millions of people don't even realise or don't put two and two together that these very same Bibles that hit out at idols so strongly, all sit in front of the person in the church.
Rather than feeling relief I feel when I walk into a church that I am walking into a trap. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Omkara wrote: |
I know plenty of people who've gotten off of drugs owing to christianity. My best friend was a speed freak and is now high on christ. I'm not sure which is worse.
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Drug addiction is much worse. |
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Omkara
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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Well, when he was on drug, I had hope. Now that he's off the drugs. . .
I used to visit with him and talk with him. Now, we can't speak. Nor have I ever taken a position which is anti-religious with him.
It's not so much that he found Jesus. In fact, that is just fine. I can understand why someone would love Christ. But, there are more than 33,000 Christs in America. He found the militant Christ. His head is screwed up.
I would rather see government funding in America go to social-secular programs than going into faith-based initiatives. Had our government put enough money into drug re-hab programs, he'd have had the choice. But, with no money and no choice, the Jesus freaks got him. Now, he wants to cast demons out of the sinners. . . |
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Omkara
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Location: USA
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Cheonmunka wrote: |
Personally, I deeply believe in God. I felt once that he came to me.
The Bible (a man-made construct ) does have some well-written timeless common sense dictates and psalms, but it is often extraneous. I suppose that's why (the words of God) are revised and re-written so often.
My personal belief in God already had and still has me doing the best I can without hurting anyone.
Yet, I am not a Christian. I refuse to go somewhere on my hands and knees and pray in a place with gold eagles and other idols on the altars and on the walls.
Shit, the danger of idolatry is written in the Bible very clearly as a terrible sin yet all the churches have idols and millions of people don't even realise or don't put two and two together that these very same Bibles that hit out at idols so strongly, all sit in front of the person in the church.
Rather than feeling relief I feel when I walk into a church that I am walking into a trap. |
I understand. But I think you'd be of the kind that would make a distinction between personal faith and universal knowledge.
I have little problem with people's personal beliefs, so long as they do not force them on other people. What worries me very deeply is the political movmements based on certain kind of organized religion.
So, you and I would have some common ground with respect to the organization of religion. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 5:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Omkara wrote: |
Well, when he was on drug, I had hope. Now that he's off the drugs. . .
I used to visit with him and talk with him. Now, we can't speak. Nor have I ever taken a position which is anti-religious with him.
It's not so much that he found Jesus. In fact, that is just fine. I can understand why someone would love Christ. But, there are more than 33,000 Christs in America. He found the militant Christ. His head is screwed up.
I would rather see government funding in America go to social-secular programs than going into faith-based initiatives. Had our government put enough money into drug re-hab programs, he'd have had the choice. But, with no money and no choice, the Jesus freaks got him. Now, he wants to cast demons out of the sinners. . . |
That's his issue, not Christianity's generally. There are a lot of Christianities and not all are on the whole beneficial. Although anecdotal evidence of how crazy Worshipper X may be, and the dogma he accepts from Denomination Y, can move us to question the abuse of faith, it does not indict all faith generally.
As for gov't funding being preferable to private charity, I disagree strongly. One of America's saving graces is its grassroots charitable foundation. Giving that up to weaken Christianity, because you'd only weaken it at best, is not worth what would be lost. When you take energized, self-motivated ingenuity and sap it with government regulation and oversight, you're most definitely going to lose something on balance. |
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Justin Hale
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Location: the Straight Talk Express
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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The most sensible thing to do here would be to end the war on drugs. And once again, this socio-economic advance is supported largely by the nontheist with the theists (Left and Right) acting as a retardant on progress - business as usual, eh? Here, the theist advocates that the government owns your body and your life. No belief could be more insane, irrational, unnatural and indecent.
Right Wing nontheists and libertarians are generally hostile to the war on drugs, I find, with Left Wing nontheists, Left Wing theists and Right Wing theists all in favor.
Regarding scripture, I find it unlikely that the writers of the Bible were hostile to drug-use, as profoundly mystical experiences can be had. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Fri May 09, 2008 8:32 pm Post subject: |
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| Justin Hale wrote: |
| The most sensible thing to do here would be to end the war on drugs. And once again, this socio-economic advance is . . . |
Yes, yes, yes. You have an amazing talent. You can say things I totally agree with in a way that makes me cringe.
Well, at least you're enjoying the culture war. |
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Omkara
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Location: USA
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| Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 4:40 am Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Omkara wrote: |
Well, when he was on drug, I had hope. Now that he's off the drugs. . .
I used to visit with him and talk with him. Now, we can't speak. Nor have I ever taken a position which is anti-religious with him.
It's not so much that he found Jesus. In fact, that is just fine. I can understand why someone would love Christ. But, there are more than 33,000 Christs in America. He found the militant Christ. His head is screwed up.
I would rather see government funding in America go to social-secular programs than going into faith-based initiatives. Had our government put enough money into drug re-hab programs, he'd have had the choice. But, with no money and no choice, the Jesus freaks got him. Now, he wants to cast demons out of the sinners. . . |
That's his issue, not Christianity's generally. There are a lot of Christianities and not all are on the whole beneficial. Although anecdotal evidence of how crazy Worshipper X may be, and the dogma he accepts from Denomination Y, can move us to question the abuse of faith, it does not indict all faith generally.
As for gov't funding being preferable to private charity, I disagree strongly. One of America's saving graces is its grassroots charitable foundation. Giving that up to weaken Christianity, because you'd only weaken it at best, is not worth what would be lost. When you take energized, self-motivated ingenuity and sap it with government regulation and oversight, you're most definitely going to lose something on balance. |
You may be right about red-tape. But, I still think there should be more gov't support for abusers. In addition, I'd prefer that money go to secular programs which needn't be governmental, just professional and not faith-based. |
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