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Pluto
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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 Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 12:15 pm Post subject: Israel's 60 Year Test |
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On May14th Israel will be celebrating its 60th anniversary. No other country has struggled so much to remain free and prosperous while also feeling the need to just plainly survive. It has been quite a balance with Hamas, Hezbollah, Iran among others calling Israel 'illigitamate' while seeking the destruction of its country and its people.
The writer of this column is right to point out how absurd it is for the left, or progressives, to berate Israel while Israel is the most progressive nation in the Middle East. Israel continues to value life and property more than its adversaries ever will (read the article to see what I mean). In fact, I'd say its adversaries have no respect for life.
Israel's 60 Year Test
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Israel's 60-Year Test
May 6, 2008; Page A21
Sixty years after its birth, Israel continues to test the proposition that reality counts for more than perception.
The Web site eyeontheun.org keeps a running tally of all United Nations resolutions, decisions and reports condemning this or that country for this or that human rights violation (real or alleged). Between January 2003 and March 2008, tiny Israel � its population not half that of metropolitan Cairo's � was condemned no fewer than 635 times. The runners-up were Sudan at 280, the Democratic Republic of the Congo at 209, and Burma at 183. North Korea was cited a mere 60 times, a third as many as the United States. Is Israel the world's foremost abuser of human rights? A considerable segment of world opinion thinks that it is, while an equally considerable segment of elite opinion thinks that, even if it isn't, its behavior is nonetheless reprehensible by civilized standards.
I would argue the opposite: that no other country has been so circumspect in using force against the provocations of its enemies. Nor has any so consistently preserved the civil liberties of its own citizens. That goes double in a country so constantly beset by so many threats to its existence that its government would long ago have been justified in imposing a perpetual state of emergency.
For reasons both telling and mysterious, Israel has become unpopular among that segment of public opinion that calls itself progressive. This is the same progressive segment that believes in women's rights, gay rights, the rights to a fair trial and to appeal, freedom of speech and conscience, judicial checks on parliamentary authority. These are rights that exist in Israel and nowhere else in the Middle East. So why is it that the country that is most sympathetic to progressive values gets the least of progressive sympathies?
The answer, it is said, is that as democratic as Israel may be in its domestic politics, it is nothing but bloody-minded as far as its foes are concerned. In May 2002, at the height of the so-called al-Aqsa Intifada, I reviewed Israeli and Palestinian casualty figures, sticking to Palestinian sources for Palestinian numbers and Israeli sources for Israeli ones. Much was then being made in the Western media of the fact that three times as many Palestinians as Israelis had been killed in the conflict � evidence, supposedly, that despite the suicide bombings, lynchings and roadside ambushes perpetrated daily against Israelis, Palestinians were the ones who really were getting it in the neck.
But drilling down into the data, something interesting turned up. At the time, 1,296 Palestinians had been killed by Israelis � of whom a grand total of 37, or 2.8%, were female. By contrast, of the 496 Israelis killed by Palestinians (including 138 soldiers and policemen), there were 126 female fatalities, or 25%.
To be female is a fairly reliable indicator of being a noncombatant. Females are also half the population. If Israel had been guilty of indiscriminate violence against Palestinians, the ratio of male-to-female fatalities would not have been 35-1.
These are not complicated facts. Yet the effort to think them through is rarely made. Is it laziness? I think not, because the image of demonic Israel, presented in copiously footnoted and ingeniously mendacious books like "The Israel Lobby," is the product of a great deal of effort.
Is it anti-Semitism? One dare not suggest it, since the standard by which anti-Jewish bigotry is judged today is considerably stricter than what is usually used in the face of allegations of racism, sexism or homophobia.
But whatever it is, the constant assault on Israel's morality has had its effect. Beyond Hamas, beyond Hezbollah, beyond the competition between Jewish and Arab numbers west of the Jordan River and the ever-growing number of Iranian centrifuges spinning a nuclear future for Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Israel is beset by the fear that, being unloved, it is unworthy. "The anti-Semite makes the Jew," said Jean-Paul Sartre, as if Jewishness was something conferred rather than practiced.
A sibling notion, seemingly benign but insidious, is that Israel's right to exist rests ultimately with the acquiescence of others, which in turn is a function of their perceptions. This is also known as "legitimacy."
Perhaps not surprisingly for a state that was born of a U.N. resolution (which the U.N. has never since ceased trying to disavow), Israel has been uniquely mindful of how it is perceived. Yet a nation that constantly feels the need to demonstrate its right to exist, rather than simply assert it, puts itself to an endless test, which it may someday fail.
Then again, look at the headlines in the copy of the May 16, 1948, Palestine (later Jerusalem) Post, reproduced nearby. That was a nation in far greater peril than the one that exists today. For 60 years, it has survived mainly through courageous and improbable acts of assertion, yielding an unfolding set of realities that defied perception. It's the only formula by which Israel's next 60 years may be assured.
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Justin Hale
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Location: the Straight Talk Express
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 6:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Pluto wrote: |
| Israel is the most progressive nation in the Middle East |
According to this, 25% of Israelis are atheists (and 12.1% "hardcore").
Accusations about the power of the US Jewish Lobby are always total guesswork, conjecture and sheer fantasy. Anyway, so long as the two-state solution will be billed as a victory for Jihadism (which is totally false, but that's how it'll be billed) I fail to see any convincing reason to have a strong opinion that this is of urgency. |
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nicholas_chiasson
Joined: 14 Jun 2007
Location: Samcheok
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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| Israel is the most repressive brutal country in the world-that is also considered a liberal democracy. One reason NK is critiqued 60 times is short of an american invasion what else can they lose? Who trades with Sudan besides China these days anyway? And China has openly said "human rights are relative". Israel is a country that MIGHT actually bow to public censure unlike the other countries listed. |
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Kimbop
Joined: 31 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| nicholas_chiasson wrote: |
| Israel is the most repressive brutal country in the world-that is also considered a liberal democracy. One reason NK is critiqued 60 times is short of an american invasion what else can they lose? Who trades with Sudan besides China these days anyway? And China has openly said "human rights are relative". Israel is a country that MIGHT actually bow to public censure unlike the other countries listed. |
errr, come again? Did anyone else have trouble understanding this??
Israel is the only democracy in the middle east, and is flush with technological innovation and nobel prizes. It's also a great place to take a vacation from what I hear. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Kimbop wrote: |
| nicholas_chiasson wrote: |
| Israel is the most repressive brutal country in the world-that is also considered a liberal democracy. One reason NK is critiqued 60 times is short of an american invasion what else can they lose? Who trades with Sudan besides China these days anyway? And China has openly said "human rights are relative". Israel is a country that MIGHT actually bow to public censure unlike the other countries listed. |
errr, come again? Did anyone else have trouble understanding this??
Israel is the only democracy in the middle east, and is flush with technological innovation and nobel prizes. It's also a great place to take a vacation from what I hear. |
The problem is, it is only a democracy for some. |
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Pluto
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| The problem is, it is only a democracy for some. |
Israel's 1.2M Arabs or so have the right to vote. They are also free to interact in the greater society by practicing the religion of their choice, going to school and university, owning property, owning homes, owning businesses among other freedoms. Israel's Arabs are treated vastly better than Jews in other ME countries. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Pluto wrote: |
| Big_Bird wrote: |
| The problem is, it is only a democracy for some. |
Israel's 1.2M Arabs or so have the right to vote. They are also free to interact in the greater society by practicing the religion of their choice, going to school and university, owning property, owning homes, owning businesses among other freedoms. Israel's Arabs are treated vastly better than Jews in other ME countries. |
Actually, Israeli arabs are not treated equally to Israeli Jews, even under law. Israel has a poor record on that score. I haven't got time to debate this with you as I have 2 essay deadlines looming + a small assessment (and I imagine it's pretty pointless really because no evidence to the contrary is likely to sway you from what you choose to believe) but reading your posts just reminds me of the incredible ignorance regarding Israel. If you scratched the surface a little deeper, you might see a very different picture. But you don't want to see that, so you won't. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Kimbop wrote: |
| nicholas_chiasson wrote: |
| Israel is the most repressive brutal country in the world-that is also considered a liberal democracy. One reason NK is critiqued 60 times is short of an american invasion what else can they lose? Who trades with Sudan besides China these days anyway? And China has openly said "human rights are relative". Israel is a country that MIGHT actually bow to public censure unlike the other countries listed. |
errr, come again? Did anyone else have trouble understanding this??
Israel is the only democracy in the middle east, and is flush with technological innovation and nobel prizes. It's also a great place to take a vacation from what I hear. |
Nope, it was clear to me. He was basically saying intl. criticism of Israel might actually do some good because Israel is a democracy. |
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Big_Bird
Joined: 31 Jan 2003
Location: Sometimes here sometimes there...
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| Posted: Tue May 06, 2008 10:44 pm Post subject: |
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| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Kimbop wrote: |
| nicholas_chiasson wrote: |
| Israel is the most repressive brutal country in the world-that is also considered a liberal democracy. One reason NK is critiqued 60 times is short of an american invasion what else can they lose? Who trades with Sudan besides China these days anyway? And China has openly said "human rights are relative". Israel is a country that MIGHT actually bow to public censure unlike the other countries listed. |
errr, come again? Did anyone else have trouble understanding this??
Israel is the only democracy in the middle east, and is flush with technological innovation and nobel prizes. It's also a great place to take a vacation from what I hear. |
Nope, it was clear to me. He was basically saying intl. criticism of Israel might actually do some good because Israel is a democracy. |
Yes, that's what I got too.
But it's not likely to happen with so many (and seemingly so much of the US electorate) desperately falling over themselves to apologise for any of her misdeeds. |
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postfundie
Joined: 28 May 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 08, 2008 6:06 am Post subject: |
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| Actually, Israeli arabs are not treated equally to Israeli Jews, even under law |
Actually you didn't address the rights that Arabs have in Israel. Israel definately has some problems to work out but it is by far better than other countries that tie Islam to the constitution... |
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Pluto
Joined: 19 Dec 2006
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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| Big_Bird wrote: |
| Actually, Israeli arabs are not treated equally to Israeli Jews, even under law. Israel has a poor record on that score. I haven't got time to debate this with you as I have 2 essay deadlines looming + a small assessment (and I imagine it's pretty pointless really because no evidence to the contrary is likely to sway you from what you choose to believe) but reading your posts just reminds me of the incredible ignorance regarding Israel. If you scratched the surface a little deeper, you might see a very different picture. But you don't want to see that, so you won't. |
I've got no doubt that you're well informed but I do wonder if you are looking at this with a full perspective. For one, Arabs in Israel are treated vastly better than Jews in many Muslim countries; I stand by that assertion. One thing you should think about is why Israel has become so wealthy; Israelis are much richer than the Palestinians. I'd argue that boarders would be meaningless when both Israelis and Palestinians learn to respect property rights. Moreover, should they both lay down arms and respect property rights, they would both become much much more wealthy. |
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Fishead soup
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Could you imagine how the Koreans would feel if after their liberation from Japan. The United Nations decided to give their country to someone else. This is basically what happened to the Palestinians. |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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| Israel gets a B- |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 9:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Fishead soup wrote: |
| Could you imagine how the Koreans would feel if after their liberation from Japan. The United Nations decided to give their country to someone else. This is basically what happened to the Palestinians. |
There is no "their" when it comes to land. If a multireligious state respects individual rights then most problems will vanish. The primary function of any state should be to protect individual rights. However, the evidence from Muslim states, even in modern times, is that individual rights take a back seat to religious domination. It is for this reason that the Jews are probably much better off in a state that isn't dominated by Islam. And it is for that reason that a 1 state solution will never happen. The territories should go back to Jordan and Egypt and the 67 borders by in large respected. The right of return will never be realized.
"Palestine" is a fiction and always will be. Gaza to Egypt and the West Bank to Jordan. The Arabs in those nations will have to stop treating the Arabs in the occupied territories as dogs and accept them as full citizens. It is disgusting that they still force them to live in "refugee" camps in Jordan. |
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bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
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| Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 11:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Eh well Jordan is the one Arab country that offered Palestinians citizenship. Those in refugee camps simply decided not to accept Jordanian citizenship. You're right about the remaining Arab countries however. |
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