| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
 Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 4:30 pm Post subject: Obama and Muslims |
 |
|
Op-ed today in NY Times
Since Obama is a convert from Islam to Christianity, he probably won't be very well-liked in the Islamic world.
| Quote: |
| More broadly, most citizens of the Islamic world would be horrified by the fact of Senator Obama�s conversion to Christianity once it became widely known � as it would, no doubt, should he win the White House. This would compromise the ability of governments in Muslim nations to cooperate with the United States in the fight against terrorism, as well as American efforts to export democracy and human rights abroad. |
Oh, and just in case you're wondering why Muslims would be horrified:
| Quote: |
| His conversion, however, was a crime in Muslim eyes; it is �irtidad� or �ridda,� usually translated from the Arabic as �apostasy,� but with connotations of rebellion and treason. Indeed, it is the worst of all crimes that a Muslim can commit, worse than murder (which the victim�s family may choose to forgive). |
Quite the conundrum. Be interesting to see how Muslims react if Obama wins the Presidency. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
|
| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 4:46 pm Post subject: Re: Obama and Muslims |
|
|
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| Since Obama is a convert from Islam |
The man was never a Muslim. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 4:53 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Your definition might be different than the one held by some random dude named Mohammad, but I'm quite sure he'll be the one with the loaded gun and as such your opinion isn't as important.
Religious people act in really irrational ways, don't you know. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mateomiguel
Joined: 16 May 2005
|
| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 5:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
In this kind of situation the truth doesn't matter. All it would take would be for one Islamic religious extremist to start spreading the rumor that Barack Obama was a Christian convert from Islam and the effect would be just as bad.
And we all know there is no shortage of Islamic religious extremists in this world. And they could easily get the idea from reading it off the Internet. Maybe this post. I'm sure it would trigger riots in at least 2 middle-eastern countries.
How do you feel being a participant in the future deaths of so many people, bucheon bum? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Maybe Buchon Bun just needs to be more multicultural in his postings? We wouldn't want to upset the perpetually upset...
Hey, but let us not forget about the current president!
From today:
| Quote: |
On May 10, 2008, a member of the Islamist forum Al-Ikhlas (hosted by Piradius Net, Malaysia) posted a message claiming that an "official in the Jihadi Intelligence Organization" has learned of a plan to assassinate President Bush.
According to the posting, members of a pro-Al-Qaeda cell from a Gulf country have undergone sniper training in a Western country, and "will lie in wait during [Bush's] upcoming visit [to Saudi Arabia]." |
http://memriiwmp.org/content/en/blog_personal.htm?id=383
 |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 5:25 pm Post subject: Re: Obama and Muslims |
|
|
His father was Muslim, so therefore he was Muslim when he was born.
| Quote: |
And we all know there is no shortage of Islamic religious extremists in this world. And they could easily get the idea from reading it off the Internet. Maybe this post. I'm sure it would trigger riots in at least 2 middle-eastern countries.
How do you feel being a participant in the future deaths of so many people, bucheon bum? |
I had a feeling posting that article would inspire nonsensical hyperbole such as this. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mateomiguel
Joined: 16 May 2005
|
| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 5:30 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| I think the original article is nonsensical hyperbole already. I was just trying to meet it on an equal footing. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
|
| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 5:43 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| mises wrote: |
Your definition might be different than the one held by some random dude named Mohammad, but I'm quite sure he'll be the one with the loaded gun and as such your opinion isn't as important.
Religious people act in really irrational ways, don't you know. |
I seriously doubt that's going to be much of an issue in the United States. There are certainly a number of converts from Islam to Christianity--and even to other faiths--there over the years.
Last edited by CentralCali on Tue May 13, 2008 5:46 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 5:44 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| mateomiguel wrote: |
| I think the original article is nonsensical hyperbole already. I was just trying to meet it on an equal footing. |
Maybe it was, I didn't go to the link, but just read the excerpts. But its a genuine issue. Obambasters like Andrew Sullivan have argued that Pakistan will look at the US suddenly in a new light after we elect a black man. Nevermind Obama's actual statements. So its already on the table: how will the Islamic world view the next potential President? |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
CentralCali
Joined: 17 May 2007
|
| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 5:45 pm Post subject: Re: Obama and Muslims |
|
|
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| His father was Muslim, so therefore he was Muslim when he was born. |
Not all hadith support that view. The opposing view, of course, is based on the simple fact that the declaration of faith must be made voluntarily. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 5:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
| how will the Islamic world view the next potential President? |
Honestly, who cares. The "islamic world" exports oil, terrorists, terrorist financing and the odd date (with some used cars thrown in). With a sensible energy policy, we will no longer need to care what they think. Let China, Russia and India deal with them.
CentralCali,
mo was very clear:
Whoever changes his religion, execute him.� (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 2794).
The blood of a Muslim is illicit to shed except for one of three reasons: a married adulterer must be stoned; one who wilfully commits murder must be put to death; and a man who comes out of Islam and fights Allah and His Prophet must be put to death or crucified or banished from the earth.
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: �It is not permissible to shed the blood of a Muslim who bears witness that there is no god except Allaah and that I am His Messenger, except in one of three cases: a soul for a soul (i.e., in the case of murder); a married man who commits adultery; and one who leaves his religion and splits form the jamaa�ah (main group of Muslims).� (Narrated by al-Bukhaari, 6878; Muslim, 1676)
"Whoever reverts from Islam, men and women, it is obligatory to kill him due to the Prophet's saying: "Whoever changes his religion, kill him."
The profit sentenced people to death for apostasy in his day, btw.
The "no compulsion in religion" quote that islamist apologists use to dupe naive Westerners into the "interpretation" camp actually refers to religious duties like the haj or praying 5 times a day.
Apostates are to be killed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mateomiguel
Joined: 16 May 2005
|
| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I am pretty sure that most Americans don't give two licks about what other people from other countries would think of the president that they elect. They only care about what they personally think of the president that they elect. And I personally like it that way. If Americans started hang-wringing about the opinions of people in other countries I'd be disappointed in us as a nation.
And if strangers from strange lands care so much about who the next American president is they can join the Union and vote just like the rest of us.
Last edited by mateomiguel on Tue May 13, 2008 6:03 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| mises wrote: |
| Quote: |
| how will the Islamic world view the next potential President? |
Honestly, who cares. |
Well, my country has over 100,000 troops, plus a few thousand mercenaries, in one Muslim country. There's another Muslim country which has thousands of our troops in it as well. Plus, there are roughly 1 billion Muslims in the world. So I care.
| mateomiguel wrote: |
I am pretty sure that most Americans don't give two licks about what other people from other countries would think of the president that they elect. They only care about what they personally think of the president that they elect. And I personally like it that way. If Americans started hang-wringing about the opinions of people in other countries I'd be disappointed in us as a nation.
And if strangers from strange lands care so much about who the next American president is they can join the Union and vote just like the rest of us. |
*claps* Oh, not bad, not bad, considering that you completely missed the point.
Last edited by Kuros on Tue May 13, 2008 6:13 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:07 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Isn't Obama going to remove the troops? His flock seems to think he will. If some use mass terrorism again, then I'd recommend a crazily disproportionate response. None of that democracy-building crap.
The "islamic world" needs to learn where in the global pecking order they are/belong. China, India, Russia, Europe, Latin America and Korea/Japan are all much more important to the USA once oil is removed. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bacasper
Joined: 26 Mar 2007
|
| Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 6:46 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Including these:
| Quote: |
In 2001, Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff Air Force Gen. Richard Myers said, "It is very clear that Afghanistan is only a small piece of the US campaign that could last more than a lifetime." This ideology has been a barrage articulated not only by Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, et al., it is also the litany coming from the Democratic party, e.g. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama.
BO said on Sept. 4, 2007: "Hit Iran where it hurts." "Americans need to come together to confront the challenge posed by Iran. The war in Iraq has strengthened Iran which poses for us the greatest strategic challenge in the Middle East in a generation. Iran supports violent groups and sectarians in Iraq. Iran fuels terror and extremism in the Middle East. Iran is making progress on a nuclear program in defiance of the international community. Iran calls for Israel to be wiped off the map." He follows this up by calling for a pre-emptive military strike on Iran.
On Aug. 3, 2007, speaking at Princeton's Woodrow Wilson School of the International School for Scholars, BO called for a US attack on Pakistan, more troops in Afghanistan, and unilateral attacks on Iran and Pakistan, and strengthening the US military and intelligence apparatus across the planet.
You could not fit a sliver of paper in between the ideologies of Dick Cheney and Barack Obama. |
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
