Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Figure8]

This isn't a big deal at all, since I really didn't want to work for this particular private school anyway, after I had checked into their program a little more. I won't name them, because it doesn't really matter. But they were one of the larger, more reputable chains, I suppose.

Short story is, I applied to them before I had decided to go with a public school. I have public schools on the brain at this point for some of the obvious reasons anyone would want that position. I had sent my application, etc. to this particular private hakwon, and eventually they wrote me back to set up a phone interview. This happened a couple of weeks ago, by they way, and I am new to the actual interview process for Korean schools.

I sent them back an email saying, sure, I would do a phone interview, but I went on to basically say, but I am waiting to hear back from the public schools, so I am telling you to be fair. I suppose that they could take that as, you're my second choice, but if you want to talk to me, sure, let's talk.
I was very diplomatic in the email, complimenting their program, which, honestly, I have heard some decent things about, and letting them know that I could see myself working there without a problem. But I am exploring my options right now. I think I can see now, I probably should have just said, sure, let's interview, and skipped all of the talk about public schools.

They called, but it wasn't the original HR person who emailed. She said she'd be the one to call, but I believe that she knocked it down to a lower subordinate to do the work, who seemed to me to be just going through the motions, honestly, but god if I can tell. I have not enough experience to gauge it, if that's possible even.

Anyway, needless to say, I received an email about five days later, as they had promised, which was short and sweet and said that they could not offer me a position at this time, but thanks for applying, we'll keep your resume on file, etc. I think the application and cover letter were fine, and my picture, etc. I think what messed it all up was basically telling them (thinking that I was being fair with them) that I don't want to work for you if I can get a public school job, though you're a good organization.

So, my question is, I guess... barring the possibility that they just may have not dug my aroma, I could guess that what I did was kind of what you shouldn't do in the application process. I don't know. I know if this was a culture thing, if I caused someone to "lose face" etc., or if they just thought, whatever, we have other better applications that want a job now. Screw this guy.

I don't want to work for them, really, if I can get a PS job, as I said, but I am asking for future reference... Did that piss them off? I suppose that I am used to a certain amount of fairness and honesty as far as heads-up go when I am looking for work. I usually just tell the truth, which doesn't always work in America either, but that's the way I do it, and it has generally weeded out problem bosses. So, what does anyone think about this? In the future if I ever apply for a private chain or school again, should I just say, sure, I'll interview, I just love you guys, etc., etc... or stick to my usual, which is, I tell them the truth about what I am doing and what I am looking for?
Thanks.

[Bibbitybop]

Honesty in Korea is often not rewarded. Not that you should lie, but there is not reason to be super honest and revealing in an interview with regards to other options. The discussion should be about you and the school, not your other options.

[Figure8]

Thanks. Noted.

[PRagic]

In the cross-cultural sense, yup, you screwed up. No biggie from where you're sitting, though. You were correct in assuming that it is a 'face' thing.

For future reference, don't make another mistake that may new to Korea make: Don't try to leverage a different offer to get more out of your current employer. In general, this works the same way. You come across as being disrespectful and greedy, rather than dedicated and loyal. It's a bridge burner, and it's a big cultural difference.

Keep all information to yourself until you have to let someone know something. When you do have to move, do not critique or complain - just go. If necessary, lie in order for them to feel good about your leaving.

[KYC]

I'd keep it to myself and choose the best contract. Since you said you didn't want the job anyway, then move on and forget about it. Some people are open minded to the idea that you have other opportunities, some are not. Best to keep it to yourself and pick the contract that best fits you.

[Figure8]

Thanks. To clarify: I am asking for the future, not because my ego is bruised, but because it seemed as though I had hit on something that I should know for navigating the Korean job world. I am certainly not in love with the idea of working for that particular chain for a few reasons. But, thanks everyone for your help. I figured that it might have been something more cultural. And on a side note: I don't use the, "well, across the street they are offering me..." I don't do that even here in America. I usually just try to do my homework and make a good decision about who I could work for that would keep pay rising due to the merit and not complain about the pay, which is only part of the whole equation for work satisfaction for me. Those are usually the best situations anyway. I don't know why I told them that I was looking for a PS job too. I just wasn't thinking, or maybe I wanted to turn them off of me. I should have known better, but I think part of me wanted to end the process with them, since I had heard some things (specific facts about their policies, not rumor or opinion) that made me think working there wouldn't be a good situation for me in particular, though maybe fine for others. Oh well, whatever. It's nothing, really. Thanks again.

[PRagic]

Good approach.

For future reference, though, if you will be working for a P.S. or a crapwon, don't expect them to offer you much in the way of merit based pay incentive to stick around. Raises are bare, and for decent locations, there is never a problem finding a newbie replacement.

No problem, just don't get your hopes up.

[Figure8]

Well, yeah. The whole merit thing I realize does not apply as much to Korean EFL position as it would here in most jobs. I was just mentioning in describing who I look for as an employer here, someone with a sense of fairness and appreciation for rising skill, which is why I am attracted to the PS jobs, not because they represent a great meritocracy or anything, but because on the whole I see it as a more open, fair system than you'd get in other EFL places in Korea. Or, you know, if I am wrong about that, at least you get paid on time (in most cases, it appears).

[PRagic]

You'd have to check with someone in a P.S. position, but I believe that raises are factored in to your longevity, and not based on merit. However, they do pay more for higher degrees and certifications, so there is a way to bump up a level or two.

[Figure8]

Yeah, it's all how long you've been there, it seems, even with the degrees. I guess what I was thinking might have been, that's about as close as I am going to get, at least in the first year or two, to a meritocracy, which it actually isn't. But, a seniority system somehow seems a lot more fair than, hey, are you white, speak and English and good-looking? I don't know, I mean, I'm white, and I suppose I am not ugly. But I don't want to work for an organization that focuses so much on that, though I realize the hiring for the PS positions do look at what you look like, though it seems they do that less than the hakwons, generally speaking.

[MSU Fan]

It all depends on what you define as telling the truth. I am not even close to being a good liar, but you should try to rearrange what you say in order for you to get the best out of the situation. For some of these places time is money and some of these directors are frugal (What!? Bosses being cheap and treating people badly?)

There are a million different scenarios that you could have done and I don't know enough to give you a great answer. I think it might have been better to ask for a few days to think about teaching at their school or saying that you are interested in their school (because you are), but you need to schedule a better time for an interview (which also isn't a lie).

[Figure8]

yeah, a lot of it was just thinking, well, i will be honest with them and if they don't like what i am doing, they can just pass on, which is what they did. so, i don't know, i guess i chose to arrange the facts to basically be what they were, instead of hiding much. with a job that i would have actually wanted, i doubt i would have mentioned other searches. so, i guess that answers my own question right there: i didn't want the job, inevitably. usually, though, in america, i've found that on the whole, i can be pretty honest in my job searches when i am looking for other employment to no great consequence. so, with this situation, i definitely saw something personally about korean management that kind of clicked with me. it gives me far more information to use for the future than simply reading posts (i learn a lot reading posts, of course, but nothing like personal experience teaches you). lying is not the menu for me either, since i am about as bad at it at this point in my life as i have ever been. i guess i just feel silly not just telling it like it is. but with this korean venture, i'll play with my cards closer to my chest and just make sure i know that i am treating them decently, even if they won't return the favor. i'll feel better about it. i suppose that's true anywhere you go.

[polonius]

I can't see the Hagwon passing you up because you mentioned that you were looking into another position. Especially if the Hagwon has an H/R department, with a supervisor and an assistant. They would certainly understand that you are looking at various avenues, just as they are looking at numerous applicants.

My H/R department recently showed interest in a number of teachers, but when it came down to it, all of the candidates had relatively the same qualifications, but the bottom line was someone accepted the job before the other. So, we decided to take the one that accepted first.

I wonder if you applied for my company?

[Sody]

No need to worry OP. Shrug it off. Plenty of jobs to be had here in Korea. Plenty.

[TBirdMG]

OP,

Maybe a better context for phrasing your sentiments with the private school could have been:

"Yes, I like your school very much and I have heard many good things abut your students, Korean teachers, foreign teachers, and administration. Still, before I make a final decision about where to work, I am interviewing with 1 or 2 other schools. But I still want very much to interview with you and look forward to learning more about you."

In all honesty, Korean employers don't want to hear too much honesty. The vast majority want to hear egregious placating about their institution:

"Really, I have spoken with many other schools, and yours impresses me the most. It's clean and well organized. All the staff are amazingly friendly and talented in the classroom. Your students are happy, and you operate an efficient school from a business perspective. I would love to work for you and you only."

Remember, Korea is still VERY much a Confucian society, and paternalism runs strong...meaning you should appreciate the man who gives you a paycheck, regardless of all the other stuff.

Keep looking. You'll find what you want. Patience. Make mistakes, it's OK...just make sure not to make the SAME mistakes.