|
Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
Posted: Sun May 11, 2008 7:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
wow, if i weren't in grad school, i'd be tempted to apply. Sounds like a decent gig. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Julius

Joined: 27 Jul 2006
|
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 4:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
There are apparently 4 countries that are unable to rid themselves of their very oppressive and tyrannical governments, and are in dire need of international intervention:
Burma
North Korea
Zimbabwe
Sudan
But of course none of the above have oil, and the UN is utterly useless to do anything. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
|
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 6:12 am Post subject: |
|
|
Julius wrote: |
There are apparently 4 countries that are unable to rid themselves of their very oppressive and tyrannical governments, and are in dire need of international intervention:
Burma
North Korea
Zimbabwe
Sudan
But of course none of the above have oil, and the UN is utterly useless to do anything. |
Sudan has quite a lot of oil and the government has a great deal of support from her Arab citizens. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 10:52 am Post subject: |
|
|
Burma also has lots of natural gas and is a big source of natural resources for China. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
|
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 11:00 am Post subject: |
|
|
Then, if America were to invade and try to save those people from their government, not 5 minutes later leftists would be holding protests about resisting the neocolonialist and white supremacist ideas that led America steal Burma's gas. There would be whole classes at colleges offered and left-tards on this site would post Guardian articles about how this really IS the reason and (surprise!!!) somehow the Jews are behind it.
No thanks. Asians can take this opportunity to show how much they care about human suffering by encouraging their governments to force the juntas hand. I'm not holding my breath. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Gopher

Joined: 04 Jun 2005
|
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 12:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Exactly.
And I would add on more thing: if East Asians want to play responsible, leadership roles in world affairs, here is their chance to show us how it is done -- right in their own backyard. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Julius

Joined: 27 Jul 2006
|
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 8:31 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Gopher wrote: |
if East Asians want to play responsible, leadership roles in world affairs, here is their chance to show us how it is done -- right in their own backyard. |
Thats it. I just don't think asian nations care a jot about other asian nations. If they hear of a humanitarian disaster in another asian country, they are more likely to cheer than send aid.
But what about the UN? They have done nothing effective for any of the 4 countries I listed. Nothing. Its a poor show at the start of the 21st century when the world community just stands and watches. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
|
Posted: Mon May 12, 2008 8:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Julius wrote: |
Gopher wrote: |
if East Asians want to play responsible, leadership roles in world affairs, here is their chance to show us how it is done -- right in their own backyard. |
Thats it. I just don't think asian nations care a jot about other asian nations. If they hear of a humanitarian disaster in another asian country, they are more likely to cheer than send aid.
But what about the UN? They have done nothing effective for any of the 4 countries I listed. Nothing. Its a poor show at the start of the 21st century when the world community just stands and watches. |
When we speak of the "world community" just standing, we mean the USA and UK. If the "world community" did something, it would be the USA alone, with a couple brits, canucks and frogs thrown in for fun. Then, the "international community" would add this intervention to the long list of evils given to the world by those unilateral racists in America.
The UN is as useful as half a condom. You have to be totally out of touch with reality to think it will have any meaningful impact. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
chris_J2

Joined: 17 Apr 2006 Location: From Brisbane, Au.
|
Posted: Tue May 13, 2008 4:01 am Post subject: Myanmar |
|
|
My my, what a cynical lot of responses!
With the recent earthquake in China, & upwards of 12,000 dead in Sichuan, it's possible China will now relent, & support humanitarian aid, to Myanmar, & NOT veto any UN resolutions.
The Myanmar army currently appears to be preparing for a foreign invasion:
From: http://mmedwatch.blogspot.com/2008/05/latest-news-summary.html
Latest News Summary
Here is the latest news today.
(1) Military Government has sealed off the disaster area (delta region)
(2) No one goes in and out.
(3) Soldiers and check points are everywhere.
(4) They stop all cars, trucks, buses
(5) If they find relief supplies, they confiscate the supplies.
(6) They arrest anyone whose ID card does not belong to that region.
(7) There are individuals risking their lives to go in there through jungles, swamp lands, etc. with whatever relief supplies they can carry in their hands.
{8} Massive relief efforts are outlawed.
(9) No one dares to go & help.
(10) Donation to shelters requres permission from the thugs (military).
(11) Any violators will be beaten by thugs.
(12) Thugs are searching for people who carrying cameras, camcorders, etc. and arrest them.
(13) It is a big geographic area but only handful of roads going in and out and they sieze control of the roads and the area.
(14) Army, police, are everywhere supported by plain-clothed spies and thugs armed with machetes, guns, bamboo/wooden sticks, and walkie talkies.
(15) Law enforcement there, is NOT to serve people. They are there to suppress the people. The law enforcement is controlled by the military. Basically, law enforcement is not our friend.
(16) The situation there is not good and military government does not want you to see.
� Emphasizing to Phyar Pone Township, the military authority has declared a "curfew" on top of the "State of Emergency", to forbid anyone to go out at nights, but they are dumping dead bodies to the river at nights.
� Today, all the photo shops in Yangon were informed by goverment NOT to print any Nargis-related photographs.
� 2 days ago Khaw Thu (a famous Myanmar actor) was beaten up by Swan Arr Shin and USDA when they were trying to donate relief goods directly.
� In Kyauk Than township, 2 monasteries and 1 school (now being used as temporary shelters for storm victims), are forced to move out at latest by 14 May as they are going to use the school and monastry as the voting station.
� Regarding rescue missions, 1 RedCross ship sank. 1 helicopter down.
(Ref: Mail from Free Burma Now) (Written by a Burmese expat)
And this from CNN: http://edition.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/asiapcf/05/13/myanmar.aid/
"the ruling military junta is keeping the best foreign supplies for itself, and doling out rotting food".
They're also clumsily stamping their names, over the top of emergency foreign aid shipments, to make it look like the Myanmar Military junta is providing the aid. Absolutely nauseating.
I wonder what the response by the American public would have been, if the US government had adopted similar measures, post Hurricane Katrina? |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
chris_J2

Joined: 17 Apr 2006 Location: From Brisbane, Au.
|
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 4:34 am Post subject: |
|
|
This from today's New York Times:
"MORE than 60,000 people may have died as a result of Cyclone Nargis in Myanmar, and at least 1.5 million are homeless or otherwise in desperate need of assistance. The Burmese military junta, one of the most morally repulsive in the world, has allowed in only a trickle of aid supplies. The handful of United States Air Force C-130 flights from Utapao Air Base here in Thailand is little more than symbolic, given the extent of the need.
France�s foreign minister, Bernard Kouchner, has spoken of the possibility of an armed humanitarian intervention, and there is an increasing degree of chatter about the possibility of an American-led invasion of the Irrawaddy River Delta.
As it happens, American armed forces are now gathered in large numbers in Thailand for the annual multinational military exercise known as Cobra Gold. This means that Navy warships could pass from the Gulf of Thailand through the Strait of Malacca and north up the Bay of Bengal to the Irrawaddy Delta. It was a similar circumstance that had allowed for Navy intervention after the Indian Ocean tsunami of December 2004.
Because oceans are vast and even warships travel comparatively slowly, one should not underestimate the advantage that fate has once again handed us. For example, a carrier strike group, or even a smaller Marine-dominated expeditionary strike group headed by an amphibious ship, could get close to shore and ferry troops and supplies to the most devastated areas on land.
The magic of this is that an enormous amount of assistance can be provided while maintaining a small footprint on shore, greatly reducing the chances of a clash with the Burmese armed forces while nevertheless dealing a hard political blow to the junta. Concomitantly, drops can be made from directly overhead by the Air Force without the need to militarily occupy any Burmese airports.
In other words, this is militarily doable. The challenge is the politics, both internationally and inside Myanmar. Because one can never assume an operation will go smoothly, it is vital that the United States carry out such a mission only as part of a coalition including France, Australia and other Western powers. Of course, the approval of the United Nations Security Council would be best, but China � the junta�s best friend � would likely veto it.
And yet China � along with India, Thailand and, to a lesser extent, Singapore � has been put in a very uncomfortable diplomatic situation. China and India are invested in port enlargement and energy deals with Myanmar. Thailand�s democratic government has moved closer to the junta for the sake of logging and other business ventures. Singapore, a city-state that must get along with everybody in the region, is suspected of acting as a banker for the Burmese generals. All these countries quietly resent the ineffectual moral absolutes with which the United States, a half a world away, approaches Myanmar. Nonetheless, the disaster represents an opportunity for Washington. By just threatening intervention, the United States puts pressure on Beijing, New Delhi and Bangkok to, in turn, pressure the Burmese generals to open their country to a full-fledged foreign relief effort. We could do a lot of good merely by holding out the possibility of an invasion.
The other challenge we face lies within Myanmar. Because a humanitarian invasion could ultimately lead to the regime�s collapse, we would have to accept significant responsibility for the aftermath. And just as the collapse of the Berlin Wall was not supposed to lead to ethnic cleansing in Yugoslavia, and the liberation of Iraq from Saddam Hussein was not supposed to lead to civil war, the fall of the junta would not be meant to lead to the collapse of the Burmese state. But it might.
About a third of Myanmar�s 47 million people are ethnic minorities, who have a troubled historical relationship with the dominant group, the Burmans. Daw Aung San Suu Kyi, the heroine of the democracy movement, is an ethnic Burman just like the generals, and her supporters are largely focused on the Burman homeland. Meanwhile, the Chins, Kachins, Karennis, Karens, Shans and other hill tribes have been fighting against the government. The real issue in Myanmar, should the regime fall, would be less about forging democracy than a compromise between the Burmans and the other ethnic groups.
Of course, Myanmar is not the Balkans or Iraq, where ethnic and sectarian rivalries were smothered under a carapace of authoritarianism, only to erupt later on. Myanmar has suffered insurgencies for 60 years now, and may be ripe for a compromise under a civilian government. But neither can we be na�ve. Just because Myanmar is not Yugoslavia doesn�t mean it isn�t like Russia; it is a mini-empire ruled by the ethnic-Burman military that could crumble into its constituent mountainous parts, especially as the democracy advocates have demonstrated little ability to run a country. Here in Mae Sot, a center for non-Burman ethnic dissident groups, complaints over the disorganization of Mrs. Aung San Suu Kyi�s movement are rife.
It seems like a simple moral decision: help the survivors of the cyclone. But liberating Iraq from an Arab Stalin also seemed simple and moral. (And it might have been, had we planned for the aftermath.) Sending in marines and sailors is the easy part; but make no mistake, the very act of our invasion could land us with the responsibility for fixing Burma afterward."
Robert D. Kaplan is a national correspondent for The Atlantic and a fellow at the Center for a New American Security in Washington.
I am not so certain that China would still veto emergency international aid, in defiance of the junta, in view of the recent disaster in Sichuan, with infrastucture there crippled, & 20,000 people dead, with thousands still missing.
Last edited by chris_J2 on Wed May 14, 2008 4:56 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
bookemdanno

Joined: 30 Apr 2008
|
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 4:48 am Post subject: |
|
|
Well, this is a timely and pressing discussion topic, hagwonguy, I must say.
Yes, the UN Security Council should send forces into Myanmar, into Sudan, and into Zimbabwe.
North Korea is off-limits for obvious reasons.
This is yet another series of examples where the UN fails its mission.
The problem is whether China would abstain or try to veto movement on the first two nations. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Julius

Joined: 27 Jul 2006
|
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 4:55 am Post subject: |
|
|
Gopher wrote: |
if East Asians want to play responsible, leadership roles in world affairs, here is their chance to show us how it is done -- right in their own backyard. |
One example of that was Vietnam putting a stop to the Khmer rouge in Cambodia.
Can't argue with that... |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
Sincinnatislink

Joined: 30 Jan 2007 Location: Top secret.
|
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 7:32 am Post subject: |
|
|
bucheon bum wrote: |
Drew345 wrote: |
Actually, it wouldn't quite be all wine and roses is the current junta were overthrown. The county would divide.
Myanmar is 7 "divisions" which are Burmese majorities; and 7 "states" which have majorities of non-burmese (Shan, Kachin, Karen, Mon, Chin, Kayah, Rhakaine). If the military government were overthrown, certainly 3 or 4 of these states, which have been fighting for independence for years, would seperate. Could be civil war. Sounds too much like another recent invasion scenario. |
Exactly. While the junta is despicable, it has at least managed to keep the country together. |
We have a winner. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
chris_J2

Joined: 17 Apr 2006 Location: From Brisbane, Au.
|
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 5:59 pm Post subject: Myanmar |
|
|
The Khmer Rouge managed to keep Cambodia together, too... at a price. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007 Location: retired
|
Posted: Wed May 14, 2008 6:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Sincinnatislink wrote: |
bucheon bum wrote: |
Drew345 wrote: |
Actually, it wouldn't quite be all wine and roses is the current junta were overthrown. The county would divide.
Myanmar is 7 "divisions" which are Burmese majorities; and 7 "states" which have majorities of non-burmese (Shan, Kachin, Karen, Mon, Chin, Kayah, Rhakaine). If the military government were overthrown, certainly 3 or 4 of these states, which have been fighting for independence for years, would seperate. Could be civil war. Sounds too much like another recent invasion scenario. |
Exactly. While the junta is despicable, it has at least managed to keep the country together. |
We have a winner. |
Yup. And the primary tool used to keep it together has been rape. You smug little dork. |
|
Back to top |
|
 |
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|