Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Justin Hale]

I referenced this in the Einstein thread, but it deserves its own thread, surely.

The answer to this question is yes according to this source

[Underwaterbob]

I posted this in the Einstein thread as well:

[mises]

The slaughter in India is likely the greatest crime ever committed on this earth. And hardly anybody knows about it.

Meanwhile, yesterday in India there was yet another Muslim on Hindu slaughter at 7 bombs blew up a temple. 60 dead or so.

But remember Justin, not ALL Muslims want to kill the kafir. Only the radical ones, who only constitute about 30-50% of the whole. (thought I'd get to that before the PC police)

[ajgeddes]

I wonder if they include all the Christians from the Crusades who invaded.

[mises]

Good question.

I wonder if it includes that Europeans who were killed when the Muslims invaded Europe.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Vienna

[Ya-ta Boy]

[mises]

I thought that was a stupid statement too.

Western people have a very Western-centric understanding of history. As my history prof said "It ain't a war unless it is in Europe".

Anyways, not even 5 years ago I knew nothing about India. Nothing at all. I assume that the Muslims and Christians didn't sit down and conspire to keep quiet, but that Western people just aren't that interested in meaningful knowledge about foreign lands or their history. And I count myself in that camp.

[sunhelen]

There is a myth that Muslims systematically force people to convert. This is not true. This does not mean that some Muslims do not use their religion as an excuse to mistreat people over whom they have power. I think the same can be said of Christianity who I have to say have a pretty bad record of killing people over religion.

As for the numbers quoted here, is there a reliable, PUBLISHED source for these statistics. I have studied Indian history a little. Everything that I have read is by Hindu, Christian, and Buddhist authors. Why don't they mention this genocide?

On the other hand, many of the Hindus write about how dangerous Hindu Nationalists are. In present day India, Muslims are more likely to be murdered by Hindus than the other way around. Murders are also more likely to be motivated by class than religion, but religion has a tendency to get blamed. Many powerful Indians like to attribute bombings to Muslim groups even when they were part of the widespread peasant revolt that impacts much of the country.

[mateomiguel]

Is it still genocide if it takes 500 years to finish? I always though genocide was more like a systematic destruction of a people that would last one lifetime, at the very greatest.

[mises]

[CentralCali]

Zarotharians? Perhaps you're referring to Zoroastrians? They're in a few countries, including Iran, where their representation in the Majlis is one of the seven religious minority seats. It seems to me that if Islam mandated forced conversion or massacre of non-Muslims, an Islamic Republic would certainly not provide for non-Muslim representation in the government.

By the way, wasn't it one of India's Hindu rulers who massacred quite a lot of the population to conquer the land? IIRC, Asoka later converted to Buddhism when he felt anguish over how many deaths he caused.

It's an oversimplification, and not a very good one, to blame a religion for deaths from political actions such as wars.

[Rteacher]

I think it's more useful to focus on what's been going down in modern times - since atheists got organized under the Communist banner.

Over the last century, avowedly atheistic leaders (most prominently Stalin and Mao Tse Tung) utilizing purely materialistic, anti-theistic doctrines (ie: Marxism/Maoism based on "scientific" Dialectical Materialism) killed tens of millions of people (with some estimates approaching 100 million.)

Obviously - even accepting the 270 million figure (over the past 1400 years) for the most militant religion - the atheists have successfully managed to accelerate the murder rate.

Last time I checked, "Thou Shalt Not Kill" - basically prohibiting unnecessary killing - is an essential religious principle that is part of the core beliefs of every major religion.

It's clearly not a central tenet of Marxism (which replaces God with the State) or Darwinism (which seems to provide a "might makes right" rationale by implication.)

[mises]

Yup, I spelled it wrong. Persia went from near 100% Zoro to near 100% Muslim.

You should read (Second time I've had to tell you to do this in 24 hours) about what went on in Persia when the Arab hordes invaded. Sometimes, dear cali, life and history aren't "tolerant" or politically correct.

Jesus. How about the first 2 paragraphs of this wiki post.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persecution_of_Zoroastrians

[edit] Jizya

Before the Arab conquest, Zoroastrianism was the state religion of Sassanid Persia and Zoroastrians faced little or no persecution. However, after the fall of the Sassanid empire, Zoroastrians faced various forms of persecution. This led to the decline of Zoroastrianism as Persians gradually converted to Islam.

After the Arab conquest of Persia, the Arabs took over the Sassanian tax system and introduced the Jizya, a special tax for non-Muslims. Muslims are obliged to spend a certain amount of their wealth or money for the welfare of the society, through Khums and Zakat (two Islamic economic rules) normally paid to the government or the religious leader. In Islamic theory, because non-Muslims do not contribute to the society through Khums and Zakat, they should pay their share in the form of Jizya. By paying the Jizya they accept the social system and the Islamic state is obligated to protect them as its citizens. [2]

[mises]

With this site, you can learn about this jihad, and all the others.

http://www.historyofjihad.org/india.html?syf=contact

Western people need to educate themselves. Osama, the Taliban and the jihadi jet-set can all be placed in a historical context of using death and destruction to spread Islam. Our vacation from history ended on 9/11/2001.

[Kuros]

Yes, Islam has killed 270 million people . . .

IF you can show that 'but-for' Islam, those 270 million people would have otherwise lived.

Good luck with that.