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patongpanda
Joined: 06 Feb 2007
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 Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 1:09 am Post subject: |
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I wasn't at Mt Sinai at the time so I only have OT to go by. It's a bit confusing as there were two sets of commandments given.
Moses broke the first (they do bare some resemblance to the ones you posted).
God gave him a new different set. I assume the second set take precedence.
1. Worship no other god than Yahweh:
2. Make no covenant with the inhabitants of other lands to which you go, do not intermarry with them, destroy their places of worship.
3. Do not cast idols.
4. Observe the Feast of Unleavened Bread for seven days in the month of Abib in remembrance of the Exodus.
5. Sacrifice firstborn male animals to Yahweh. The firstborn of a donkey may be redeemed; redeem firstborn sons.
6. Do no work on the seventh day.
7. Observe the Feast of First Fruits and the Feast of Ingathering: All males are therefore to appear before Yahweh three times each year.
8. Do not offer the blood of a sacrifice with leavened bread.
9. Do not let the Passover sacrifice remain until the following morning.
10. Bring the first fruits of the harvest to the Temple of Yahweh.
11. Do not cook a kid in its mother's milk.
Check the text here:
http://www.mechon-mamre.org/p/pt/pt0234.htm#10 |
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patongpanda
Joined: 06 Feb 2007
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 1:53 am Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
| There is a myth that Muslims The rest starved to death, were made slaves (as were thousands of Irish when Muslims raided the coast of Ireland) or just killed. |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jan_Janszoon
Captain was a Dutch convert. I would chalk this one down to piracy than religious reasons. |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 8:02 am Post subject: |
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| Did he take muslims as slaves? |
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browneyedgirl
Joined: 17 Jul 2007
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| Posted: Sat May 17, 2008 6:39 pm Post subject: |
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| mises wrote: |
The slaughter in India is likely the greatest crime ever committed on this earth. And hardly anybody knows about it.
Meanwhile, yesterday in India there was yet another Muslim on Hindu slaughter at 7 bombs blew up a temple. 60 dead or so.
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Really? It hasn't been mentioned on the news here. |
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big_blue_21
Joined: 02 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 7:40 am Post subject: |
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| CentralCali wrote: |
| Zarotharians? Perhaps you're referring to Zoroastrians? They're in a few countries |
Speaking of India, there's a lot in Bombay . . .Parsees they call them . . . there's actually a distinct group of Jews in Bombay too . . . there's a group of Christians in Kerela (forget what they're called) who were converted by St. Thomas, a disciple of Jesus--that would be circa 50 A.D.! My ancestors were still running around in the woods of North Germany in loin clothes worshipping worshipping oak trees and Thor at that point in time!!! |
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big_blue_21
Joined: 02 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| SirFink wrote: |
| If God didn't exist we'd invent him. Along those same lines, if Islam didn't exist -- heck, if religion didn't exist -- we'd come up with some other reason to kill each other. Darwin was right and 1 billion years of evolution can't be wrong: we'll always find a reason to compete with and even kill people we see as competition for mates, food, land, etc. |
There's a cool quote by Ian Malcolm in Lost World that says we kill over ideologies the way animals kill over territory, because the way humans evolved, ideologies are what determine the way resources are distributed within the species, just as sheer might determines it in the animal kingdom . . . |
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mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 8:58 am Post subject: |
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| browneyedgirl wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
The slaughter in India is likely the greatest crime ever committed on this earth. And hardly anybody knows about it.
Meanwhile, yesterday in India there was yet another Muslim on Hindu slaughter at 7 bombs blew up a temple. 60 dead or so.
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Really? It hasn't been mentioned on the news here. |
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7399835.stm
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Tuesday's series of blasts in the western Indian city of Jaipur have dominated the front pages of India's newspapers. The papers say the explosions appear to be the result of a planned operation and followed a pattern of recent similar attacks.
"And Now, It's Jaipur" says The Times Of India.
The newspaper says the explosions were the "21st terror attack" outside Indian-administered Kashmir in the past three years.
It says Tuesday evening's blast bore "close resemblance" to similar explosions in a temple in the holy city of Varanasi, the train bombings in the western city of Mumbai and the suburbs of Malegaon in western India over the past two years.
The paper quotes unnamed sources saying the blasts "pointed to a sophisticated operation that only foreign-trained groups are capable of executing".
The newspaper also says that the blasts, which happened in "affluent and predominantly Hindu areas" were aimed at "fuelling" tension between communities.
"Death and fear in Jaipur" says The Indian Express
The paper says the blasts came on the 10th anniversary of India's nuclear tests that were held in the Rajasthan state.
'Main target'
"[Hindu] temples seemed to be the main target," the paper says. |
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big_blue_21
Joined: 02 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 9:09 am Post subject: |
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| Justin Hale wrote: |
| The Bible and Koran are infallible books that explicitly instruct adherents to kill. |
That's what you're getting wrong, man, the New Testament NEVER instructs believers to kill non-believers. In Matthew 5 Jesus specifically commands his adherents to love those who persecute them, presumably non-Christians then! Also, Jesus stopped the religous leaders from stoning to death the woman caught in adultery, even though the Pentateuch (from which you quoted earlier about witches) stipulated death as the punishment. Jesus says "He who has no sin, let him cast the first stone."
Not only can a Christian not kill for breaking religious rules, he can't kill even in self-defense it would seem: "If a man takes your cloak, give him your tunic, if you a man slaps you on your right cheek, turn to him your left" (Matthew 5).
In that same chapter Jesus says "Blessed are the peacemakers for they will know peace" and when his disciple Peter severed off the ear of a solider who came to arrest Jesus, Jesus rebukes Peter, first heals the man's ear and says, "Those who live by the sword shall die by the sword." This was an unbeliever who Jesus not only healed but forbid his discple, who was also the first Pope--there goes any arguments about the Inquisition--from harming, not to say killing . . .
The only punishment prescribed in the New Testament is for believers and that's banning them from church!
The whole plan of the man who Christianized Europe, St. Paul, was to win converts through love, not force: "They will know we are Christians by our love." This is a historical fact that even the anti-religionist Roman historian Edward Gibbon comments on.
Whatever any other passage in the Bible says, Christ himself when asked by a religious leader says the greatest command, the summary of the law is LOVE, loving God with your whole soul and loving your neighbor as yourself, which He says is one and the same--that is the very essence of humanism: in our moral decisions to not asked what God wants me to do but what does my fellow man want me to do!
You should really read Tolstoy's The Gospel in Brief or Kierkegaard's Works of Love or Dostoevsky's The Brothers Karamazov--it will really help give you a more accurate view of Christianity and show you that the the dilemna in Christian ethics is not having to kill others, it's about defending yourself--how can you survive in this world when Jesus, God Himself, commands you to never refuse a man who asks, never strike in self-defense. But in terms of divine injuction to murder, Kierkegaard's Fear and Trembling deals with this very problem . . . what if God did order me to take innocent life? |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Mon May 19, 2008 5:18 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| what if God did order me to take innocent life? |
Put the baby down and step away from the microwave!
The NT is mostly self-harm, I think Jesus was very Emo. Also plenty of threats of going to hell for non-believers which can be seen as justifying the torture and killing of non-believers. It is contempt Jesus shows to his non-followers not love.
Matthews comments on what will happen to non-believers as well as Jews, that they will receive divine punishment, it all justifies violence towards these groups. If God hates them why should I love them. *beep* it let's chuck in homos too.
| Quote: |
| Rom 1:32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them. |
You'd have to tear out a lot of pages before the New Testament becomes a book of love. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 6:47 am Post subject: |
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You may be a smart man, but (unlike Forest Gump) you don't know what love is.
Real love trancends the temporary material body. |
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big_blue_21
Joined: 02 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 11:01 am Post subject: |
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yeah, but you'd have to tear out a lot of pages before it didn't become a book of love . . .
nah, man, don't worry, it was just a corndog . . .
Interesting point, Rteacher. I've thought about that same idea: what if love doesn't involve the physical body, then I guess I'd be okay to hurt the body especially if you could convince yourself you were doing it to save the soul . . . |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
| You may be a smart man, but (unlike Forest Gump) you don't know what love is. |
As soon as you're ready myself and these guys are waiting. |
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ED209
Joined: 17 Oct 2006
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 4:00 pm Post subject: |
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| donselma wrote: |
| yeah, but you'd have to tear out a lot of pages before it didn't become a book of love . . . |
Indeed, it's called cherry picking. The New Testament like the rest of the Bible is a mixture of human emotions and desires, it is as much filled with hate as love. Whatever your agenda the Bible can back it up. |
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big_blue_21
Joined: 02 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| whatever, man, i just want to eat my corndog . . . oh, wait, there's the microwave right now!!! . . . |
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big_blue_21
Joined: 02 Nov 2005
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| Posted: Tue May 20, 2008 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| ps Is that New Kids on the Block?!!! . . . ur, wait . . . |
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