|
Korean Job Discussion Forums
"The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
|
| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Fishead soup
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea
|
 Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 5:55 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| Justin Hale wrote: |
No shortage of dynamic issues here
| Quote: |
The Saudi Interior Ministry should immediately and unconditionally release Matrook al-Faleh, one of Saudi Arabia's leading human rights activists, Human Rights Watch said today. On May 19, Saudi secret police apprehended Dr. al-Faleh on the premises of King Saud University in Riyadh, where he teaches political science. His arrest took place two days after he publicly criticized conditions in a prison where two other Saudi human rights activists are serving jail terms.
......
Saudi authorities in December 2007 arrested blogger Fu'ad Farhan after he called for the release of a group of detained peaceful reform activists. Authorities released Farhan in April 2008 after four months of solitary confinement, but the reformers remain in detention. In May 2008, a critic of the Saudi religious police, Ra'if Badawi, fled the kingdom after receiving death threats and being charged by the Saudi Arabia's prosecution department in Jeddah with "insulting Islam." |
Other than Rteacher's theory of Karmic retribution for disabled and sick children, could there be any more disgusting position than to be a Western, Leftist woman and apologize for this system whilst directly profiting from it? Stay in America and get pregnant, for Heaven's sake. |
We need good healthy Kaffir babies to spread nonbelief and to combat the spread of Islam. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
ultra
Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Location: Book Han Gook Land Of Opportunity
|
| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 6:55 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Big_Bird wrote: |
Oh for Christ's sake, |
That is not germane and evokes antagonism and disrespect to the theme of this thread. In the event of invoking epithets in this thread,
I advise the following:
In the name of Allah, the Beneficent, the Merciful
Allah's are the excellent names, therefore invoke him by them.
(The Holy Koran 7:180)
The Prophet Muhammad (peace of Allah be upon him) said:
There are 99 names of Allah; he who enumerated them would get into Paradise... |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fishead soup
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea
|
| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 7:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Doesn't anyone else find it ironic how Islam found it's way in back door of cultural relativism since 9-11. Just proves that bleeding heart liberal won't give you the time of day until you do something really bad.
Just like " Not Without My Daughter", would be considered a feminist breakthrough prior to 9-11. After 9-11 it's considered an ethnocentric racist attack on another culture. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ultra
Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Location: Book Han Gook Land Of Opportunity
|
| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 8:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I see what you mean.
In a parallel sense, have you noticed how a few years after people got washed away in the tsunami,
it's hard to reserve a ticket to Thailand, its so popular. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
flip ant
Joined: 01 Jul 2004
Location: He's got high hopes!
|
| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 8:48 pm Post subject: |
|
|
This was from Des.
| desultude wrote: |
In Saudi Arabia dynamic change means that the phasing in of women driving, for example, is a constant subject of discussion- amongst the ruling elites- and the only hold-up is how to phase it in without exacerbating an already world-class death rate on the highways. |
You do realize, Des, that they have been talking about letting women drive FOR YEARS. Every year it gets shot down just as the year before. How slow does change have to be before you call it no change?
I lived in Saudi for nearly 5 years, so I'm not coming at this naively. but in certain areas (like yours and in Jeddah) head covers for women have been optional FOR YEARS. This is not a new thing. I would guess that you still have to wear an abbaya out in public, no? Right before I made my departure from the Magic Kingdom, I remember reading a blog somewhere that talked about some Saudi lady being harassed because she was wearing jeans UNDER her abbaya.
A slow, mind-numbing crawl toward a more progressive society ceases to be progress in my mind. It is appeasement, just like letting Saudi men who rape and beat their maids go free with little or no punishment. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
desultude
Joined: 15 Jan 2003
Location: Dangling my toes in the Persian Gulf
|
| Posted: Wed May 21, 2008 11:19 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| flip ant wrote: |
This was from Des.
| desultude wrote: |
In Saudi Arabia dynamic change means that the phasing in of women driving, for example, is a constant subject of discussion- amongst the ruling elites- and the only hold-up is how to phase it in without exacerbating an already world-class death rate on the highways. |
You do realize, Des, that they have been talking about letting women drive FOR YEARS. Every year it gets shot down just as the year before. How slow does change have to be before you call it no change?
I lived in Saudi for nearly 5 years, so I'm not coming at this naively. but in certain areas (like yours and in Jeddah) head covers for women have been optional FOR YEARS. This is not a new thing. I would guess that you still have to wear an abbaya out in public, no? Right before I made my departure from the Magic Kingdom, I remember reading a blog somewhere that talked about some Saudi lady being harassed because she was wearing jeans UNDER her abbaya.
A slow, mind-numbing crawl toward a more progressive society ceases to be progress in my mind. It is appeasement, just like letting Saudi men who rape and beat their maids go free with little or no punishment. |
I am not sure when you left, but you raise a good point: Is there actual change? I think there is but it is incredibly slow for a number of reasons.
Sign of change: Yes, I go without my abaya. I can't rightly remember the last time I wore it. It hangs on the abaya hook by my door, usually collecting dust. I don't dress provocatively, and am adequately covered. But when I go the Panda mall the mutawa never say a word to me about not wearing the abaya.
Sign of change: The King has started a new university in Jeddah where the men and women will attend classes together. Those women living on the campus (it will be huge, with all of the housing, etc. within the campus compound) will be free to drive.
Sign of change: I imagine when you were here it wasn't possible to buy a cell phone with a camera, as photography was a rather haram activity. Now all of my students own them and use them constantly- in the same way the the Korean students do. If you go on utube and search out Saudi students or women, you will be amazed at what they are doing with them.
I have made many comments about the irony of the Kingdom being such a good ally of the U.S., and vice versa. The corruption of this regime is legend. But the king seems to be a realist and wants to change things in a more western direction. You can imagine the effect of this on his opponents on the religious right. But he really must appease them, as they are a serious challenge to his family's rule. I have seen the police state in action when any of the royalty are on the move within the country. They protect their rule from the threat of fundamentalists with the might of arms supplied by the US, and others, on the one hand, and from the moderates with the force of the mutawa and religious right on the other. These are forces I would not want to be balancing, but don't take that realization as sympathy.
One thing I teach my students is that you have to really understand both sides of an argument before you can take an effective stand on an issue. I am not a sympatizer nor an apologist, but my training as a political scientist with a serious interest in anthropology requires me to live here with an open mind and ear. Being aware of what goes on here makes living here a serious challenge. Some things are god-awful and give the definition to inhumane. But nothing is a monolith- even what might be the last absolute kingdom on earth- and it is interesting and exciting to watch how people here deal with things and make changes. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Justin Hale
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Location: the Straight Talk Express
|
| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:31 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'll never forgive (a) the US and (b) Left Wing environmentalists for the developed world not developing nuclear power (for electricity production) at the same rate as France. Had we done so, we wouldn't have needed to pump countless trillions into the indescribably vile Saudi regime. What ever oil we did need - for planes and cars - could have been gotten via Canada. Climate change also would be drastically less severe had we done this. Climate change - largely but not exclusively global warming - will displace hundreds of millions of people (including those in Louisiana and Florida). Take an absolutely wild stab in the dark as to where they're gonna head? You guessed it. The West.
No matter how you slice it, it's fucked up. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 1:15 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Baptist attempts to blow up UK restaurant:
| Quote: |
Exeter explosion at Giraffe restaurant: man injured is suspected Baptist extremist
A suspected Baptist extremist has attempted to attack a restaurant in a shopping centre in the middle of Exeter.
Nobody in the restaurant was injured in the explosion apart from the bomber
The man suffered cuts to his eye and facial burns in the attack when his device went off in the toilets of the restaurant in the brand new, �230m Princesshay centre.
Police sources believe the man was arming a bomb when it partially exploded in his face. He then tried to detonate a second device in the crowded street outside the restaurant.
Bomb disposal teams have recovered canisters of a sodium-based homemade explosive, it is understood, and there were reports that nails may have been part of the devices.
Police sources told The Daily Telegraph the man is a white male, aged 22, from the South West and is thought to be a convert to Baptist Christianity. |
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/2008331/Exeter-explosion-at-Giraffe-restaurant-man-injured.html
That's a first! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Justin Hale
Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Location: the Straight Talk Express
|
| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 1:32 pm Post subject: |
|
|
More fun in Saudi Arabia....check this out for fucked up!
| Quote: |
Human Rights Watch has called on Saudi judges to overturn a decision to drop charges against a Saudi couple accused of severely abusing an Indonesian maid. A judge dropped all charges against her employers. The female employer, who admitted the abuse and was originally sentenced to 35 lashes, had her sentence overturned. Ms Miyati, 25, contracted gangrene after allegedly being tied up for a month and left without food in 2005. She had to have several fingers and toes amputated. On Monday a Riyadh judge found the female employer not guilty, despite her earlier admission and "compelling physical evidence".
A prior Saudi judgement, subsequently overturned, had seen Ms Miyati convicted of falsely accusing her employers and sentenced to 79 lashes.
Rights organisations say many foreign domestic maids in Saudi Arabia work in harsh circumstances and often suffer abuse by their employers
|
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7415290.stm |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 1:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| At least the sentences were being progressively decreased. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fishead soup
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea
|
| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 3:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| desultude wrote: |
| flip ant wrote: |
This was from Des.
| desultude wrote: |
In Saudi Arabia dynamic change means that the phasing in of women driving, for example, is a constant subject of discussion- amongst the ruling elites- and the only hold-up is how to phase it in without exacerbating an already world-class death rate on the highways. |
You do realize, Des, that they have been talking about letting women drive FOR YEARS. Every year it gets shot down just as the year before. How slow does change have to be before you call it no change?
I lived in Saudi for nearly 5 years, so I'm not coming at this naively. but in certain areas (like yours and in Jeddah) head covers for women have been optional FOR YEARS. This is not a new thing. I would guess that you still have to wear an abbaya out in public, no? Right before I made my departure from the Magic Kingdom, I remember reading a blog somewhere that talked about some Saudi lady being harassed because she was wearing jeans UNDER her abbaya.
A slow, mind-numbing crawl toward a more progressive society ceases to be progress in my mind. It is appeasement, just like letting Saudi men who rape and beat their maids go free with little or no punishment. |
I am not sure when you left, but you raise a good point: Is there actual change? I think there is but it is incredibly slow for a number of reasons.
Sign of change: Yes, I go without my abaya. I can't rightly remember the last time I wore it. It hangs on the abaya hook by my door, usually collecting dust. I don't dress provocatively, and am adequately covered. But when I go the Panda mall the mutawa never say a word to me about not wearing the abaya.
Sign of change: The King has started a new university in Jeddah where the men and women will attend classes together. Those women living on the campus (it will be huge, with all of the housing, etc. within the campus compound) will be free to drive.
Sign of change: I imagine when you were here it wasn't possible to buy a cell phone with a camera, as photography was a rather haram activity. Now all of my students own them and use them constantly- in the same way the the Korean students do. If you go on utube and search out Saudi students or women, you will be amazed at what they are doing with them.
I have made many comments about the irony of the Kingdom being such a good ally of the U.S., and vice versa. The corruption of this regime is legend. But the king seems to be a realist and wants to change things in a more western direction. You can imagine the effect of this on his opponents on the religious right. But he really must appease them, as they are a serious challenge to his family's rule. I have seen the police state in action when any of the royalty are on the move within the country. They protect their rule from the threat of fundamentalists with the might of arms supplied by the US, and others, on the one hand, and from the moderates with the force of the mutawa and religious right on the other. These are forces I would not want to be balancing, but don't take that realization as sympathy.
One thing I teach my students is that you have to really understand both sides of an argument before you can take an effective stand on an issue. I am not a sympatizer nor an apologist, but my training as a political scientist with a serious interest in anthropology requires me to live here with an open mind and ear. Being aware of what goes on here makes living here a serious challenge. Some things are god-awful and give the definition to inhumane. But nothing is a monolith- even what might be the last absolute kingdom on earth- and it is interesting and exciting to watch how people here deal with things and make changes. |
Here's what I think would be some positive changes.
Institute Thai style massage parlours offering happy endings. In that way the Saudi's wouldn't travel oversea's and get really desperate and make fools out of themselves in foreign countries.
Allow women who have been traffiked into the country to be forgiven the large dept they owe their employer. Let them set up legitimate brothels so they can send money to their families.
Legalize Alcohol: That would get rid of a lot of crime related to the black market.
Allow other religions to build churches and temples.
Stop Stoning's and Public executions
Let woman get divorced, drive cars,
Have a campaign to tell overweight women that if they lose weight their husbands will stop whoring in foreign countries. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ultra
Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Location: Book Han Gook Land Of Opportunity
|
| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 6:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
To add to the above list;
An increase in belly dancing by the people who come from the region where belly dancing originated. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Fishead soup
Joined: 24 Jun 2007
Location: Korea
|
| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 7:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ultra wrote: |
To add to the above list;
An increase in belly dancing by the people who come from the region where belly dancing originated. |
It's no fun watching a Goodyear Blimp belly dance
Actually this might encourage Saudi women to lose weight. This would also keep their husbands out of the Brothels in Thailand. Unfortunatly in the short term lots of Filipino's would be doing it. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Thu May 22, 2008 9:56 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ultra wrote: |
To add to the above list;
An increase in belly dancing by the people who come from the region where belly dancing originated. |
That's right. It predates islam.
The cultures that created it were destroyed by islam. And now the women of the region wear tents.
How is THAT for progress! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
