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Korean Job Discussion Forums "The Internet's Meeting Place for ESL/EFL Teachers from Around the World!"
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big_blue_21

Joined: 02 Nov 2005
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Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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| aboxofchocolates wrote: |
| historically you will see many more examples of polyandry than polygyny |
Sorry, did you mistype . . . Everything else you said made it sound like it (unless I grossly misread): "They do sometimes crop up. But even then (in Bali) they are male-dominated societies."
Everything I've read says polygyny is the norm . . . |
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Zaria32
Joined: 04 Dec 2007
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Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 6:13 pm Post subject: |
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No_hite_pls...
From a reading of much of what's been written lately, the group in Texas are very hard working, completely self-supporting, and take 0 government help, so your fears of your tax dollars going to them can be allayed.
Although I find their lifestyle abhorrent, I don't see that the abuse of underage girls (and apparently this very rarely, rather than frequently, happens) through forced marriage means that there is "imminent danger" of physical abuse to 1) boys, and 2) girls who are, say, 6 months or 3 years old. There's been zero evidence of any sort of child abuse other than the forced "marriage." But it was this "imminent" danger that the state of Texas used to seize more than 400 children.
Texas child welfare workers also, for weeks, refused to accept certified documents such as birth certificates, and commonly accepted documents such as driver's licenses, as proof of the age of some of the "underage" wives who turned out to be as old as 27.
To separate nursing babies of 6 or 7 months from their mothers, and place them as far as 9 hours driving time (Texas is a very big state) from the forced location of the mother (I mean forced in the sense that the mother is told "you will stay in this place or we won't permit you to visit your baby") is abusive on the part of the state. One woman had 8 children, and they were placed so far apart that it took her days to visit them all. Again, Texas is a very big state.
I've lived in many states, including California, Montana, South Carolina, North Carolina, New York, and 13 years in Texas. I've never lived anywhere that treated citizens of the state in as high-handed a manner as does Texas.
Again, I find the lifestyle of this religious group abhorrent, but absent the apparently much exaggerated incidence of forced early marriage, there is absolutely nothing that has been alleged against them ... certainly not any other form of child abuse.
Yes, I do indeed believe the leaders or those involved in forced early marriage should be charged, tried, and if juries agree with the prosecutor, convicted and punished.
However, I believe that members of this organization have the right to pursue and live life according to their beliefs... I believe that the seizing of the great majority of these children is abuse on the part of the state. |
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Len8
Joined: 12 Feb 2003 Location: Kyungju
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Posted: Fri May 23, 2008 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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| The original founder of the group was a charlatan from what I have heard. He has been in jail for some time now, but it is hard to believe that an organization founded on dubious circumstances could so flourish. |
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aboxofchocolates

Joined: 21 Mar 2008 Location: on your mind
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Posted: Sat May 24, 2008 6:01 pm Post subject: |
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| donselma wrote: |
| aboxofchocolates wrote: |
| historically you will see many more examples of polyandry than polygyny |
Sorry, did you mistype . . . Everything else you said made it sound like it (unless I grossly misread): "They do sometimes crop up. But even then (in Bali) they are male-dominated societies."
Everything I've read says polygyny is the norm . . . |
Yup, mistyped, thanks for calling me on that- now how do I go back and edit my post.... |
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Zolt

Joined: 18 May 2006
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Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 8:34 pm Post subject: |
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| Justin Hale wrote: |
"The maternal instinct leads a woman to prefer a tenth share in a first-rate man to the exclusive possession of a third-rate one"
- George Bernard Shaw |
Ya, well, those poly dudes didn't exactly strike me as first rate material, and the women's preference didn't play any part in getting them married to old geezers. Anyway, if they're born and raised in that closed environment, and submitted to strong threat of abuse if they step out of it, those girls probably built their sense of normality around that. Plus they've had their children taken away, which will piss off any woman.
About polygamy making economic sense, would you care to develop? If anything, it's old-fashioned marriage that's making less and less sense. It's now almost impossible for a regular dude to support a house wife, so imagine several?!
| Len8 wrote: |
| The original founder of the group was a charlatan from what I have heard. He has been in jail for some time now, but it is hard to believe that an organization founded on dubious circumstances could so flourish. |
The Aum sect is still flourishing and recruiting members in Japan. And there are several bigger ones that are just as weird, with member in the hundred thousands.. |
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Underwaterbob

Joined: 08 Jan 2005 Location: In Cognito
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Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 9:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Would not widespread polygamy significantly shrink the gene pool? How is this good for us as a species in the long run? |
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Justin Hale

Joined: 24 Nov 2007 Location: the Straight Talk Express
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Posted: Sun May 25, 2008 11:33 pm Post subject: |
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| Zolt wrote: |
| About polygamy making economic sense, would you care to develop? |
Develop a point that I haven't made? No thanks. |
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aboxofchocolates

Joined: 21 Mar 2008 Location: on your mind
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Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 1:52 am Post subject: |
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| Zolt wrote: |
About polygamy making economic sense, would you care to develop? If anything, it's old-fashioned marriage that's making less and less sense. It's now almost impossible for a regular dude to support a house wife, so imagine several?!
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Definitely depends on what kind of economy you have. If you need a lot of kids to do the labour, the more the better (nomadic and semi nomadic societies for instance). In a capitalist economy where you are selling your labour rather than tilling your fields or herding goats or whatever, it doesn't matter as much. Shared household economy is nice for reducing the cost of labour, but a business owner really has nothing to say about that. |
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Medic
Joined: 11 Mar 2003
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Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 4:53 am Post subject: |
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So why do these outfits flourish. Is it due to a form of brainwashing? Was the Georgetown, British Guyana mob based on the same kind of mind manipulation. How about the Moonies here in korea? Is there a need in our natures that only these outits can provide.
The founder of the group was the father of Jeffs apparently, and he had beautiful young girls as his wives. Girls must have been brought up since childhood to accept the life style lock stock and barrel. Parents of the girls mustn't have objected either, or they were forcebly removed from the parents.
The township in the Utah Colorado border where they are originally from is owned by the group and is worth over $100 million.
Deprogramming would pretty much be impossible for most of them, and yet some personalities are susceptible to cults like these. Still some find the strength to break away and do their own thing. |
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Cornfed
Joined: 14 Mar 2008
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Posted: Mon May 26, 2008 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: Texas fundamentalist polygamists |
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| Len8 wrote: |
| Incredible that people could be brainwashed so much that they accept behaviour totally contrary to current mainstream behaviour. |
Yes, how dare they practice the wrong form of polyamory. They should be humping different hoodrat gangbangers and raising the resulting bastard thug offspring on welfare just like everyone else.
Seriously, I don't know where people who work for evil Western regimes of all people get off on claiming they are protecting children. Look at what happens to children in their custody. Take the schools for example: academically atrocious, physically dangerous, riddled with (both licit and illicit) drugs, staffed by ugly feminazis hostile to male children and given over largely to political indoctrination and the coddling of non-performing minorities. Why is no-one trying to rescue children from that?
As if that were not bad enough, while in state care these kids will likely be subjected to physical and sexual abuse the like of which they never even dreamed of. Does no-one realize that mainstream Western society has become a giant evil cult? |
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