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Texas polygamist hearing turns into farce
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Kepler



Joined: 24 Sep 2007

PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Creepy photos of the FLDS leader with a 12 year girl that were introduced at court-

http://origin.sltrib.com/news/ci_9361767?source=rv
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Sat May 24, 2008 1:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Liberty or Statism:

There is no middle ground.


Silly.

I thought the police acted correctly in moving to protect the children. The courts saw otherwise. Our government system is not flawless, but it has the mechanisms to correct mistakes.
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Sun May 25, 2008 5:46 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jkelly80 wrote:
The girls are raised by predators, the boys are cut loose. Two different fates. Too hard to understand? Maybe you should go back to your lame Hitler analogies.

Maybe. But I (and ontheway) are not the only ones who think so.

The whole witchhunt atmosphere surrounding the supposed threat posed by "sex predators" constitutes yet another leg of creeping state fascism, in addition to the "war on terrorism" pretext and the war on dissent at home.

From Counterpunch:

Quote:
Sexual Fascism in Progressive America

Scapegoats and Shunning

By "PARIAH"

Progressives in America are rightly concerned about increasing signs of fascism in this country, such as a so-called war on terrorism that
allows massive invasion of privacy and wholesale imprisonment without charge; such as state manufacture of propaganda for its own
people; such as the assertion that anyone who challenges government policies on these matters is a traitor; such as a "great leader" who puts himself clearly above and outside the law. They ought to be concerned also about another sign of the demise of American justice and human decency: scapegoating. One sign of fascism has always been the creation of a scapegoated class whom people are taught to fear and hate, and whose very existence demands a totalitarian state apparatus of surveillance and control. A class whom no-one would dare defend.

There is a class of people in America today, numbering two million or more, who have been utterly scapegoated, ostracized, demonized and shunned. There is no longer any defense available for these people. Almost no-one on the left or the right, civil libertarians or ordinary citizens, will defend their rights. They are regularly vilified with the most vicious and hate-filled language--language previously reserved for classes now protected: Jews, Blacks, homosexuals. They are fair game as targets of abuse and vandalism. They are subject to utter public scorn. About 600,000 of them have been rounded up and forced to register--many soon to be monitored for life with electronic bracelets and global positioning devices. Nearly 4000 have been locked up for life, not on criminal charges, but by civil commitment, and those numbers are growing by the day. The remainder are mostly in hiding, desperately afraid of sudden exposure and witch hunts by neighbors, fellow-workers and friends, whom they fear will suddenly see them as monsters beyond redemption. They are a class defined not by specific crimes (though they are accused of many offenses) but by their very being, their desires, their constitution, as allegedly broken human beings. Presidents and Governors call them "despicable," "disgusting," "incapable of rehabilitation or reform," "beyond help." They are loudly reviled as examples to be shunned by fundamentalist and bigoted preachers, but also by left-wing media, progressive community leaders and feminists.

Who are these scum? Arab terrorists? Muslim fanatics? No--those evil-doers appear almost benign when compared to this heinous mob. These are the most awful people in the world: SEX OFFENDERS! Worse, many are PEDOPHILES! In fact, these two terms become mingled. Jeb Bush recently alluded to all the sex offenders in Florida as child molesters, though fewer than 1/3 of those incarcerated in that state for "sex crimes" involved people under 18. Bush went on, "These are a group of people who are the sickest of the sick. They are truly perverts and it's not curable. Instead of civil detention, we ought to make sure...these pedophiles...are locked up forever."

Of course among these sex offenders are indeed some criminals who have caused extreme harm: violent rapists of adult women as well as children. A few of them have kidnapped, tortured or murdered their victims. Dr. Fred Berlin of the Johns Hopkins University Sex Disorders Clinic in Baltimore estimates that such crimes account for less than 1/10th of 1% of all sex offenses in America. His studies also show that fewer than 10% of child sex offenders re-offend--though recidivism is usually given as a reason for draconian measures against them. As child abuse experts point out, about 50 children are reported kidnapped and raped or murdered by strangers annually, compared to more than 3,000 children murdered by parents and other family members in non-sexual cases. Most sex offenders, says one therapist who works with sex offenders in a state prison system, are "Gentle grandfathers who made one mistake in judgment years ago and fondled their grandchild. Or lonely, geeky gay men--teenagers some of them--who sought mutual sexual release with adolescent boys. Or young female teachers who succumbed to the wiles of handsome adolescent boys or girls. Or young men who got drunk and pushed their girlfriends over a line that is now called date rape." Yet the media, police, prosecutors and politicians continue to insist that children are in dire need of protection from serial rapists and murderers. Two-thirds of parents surveyed said they feared their children would be kidnapped and or murdered by strangers. Facts simply do not matter when hysteria is involved.

Study after study of sex offenders--as well as the countless media expos�s--insist that most sex offenders are ordinary men and women from all walks of life, indistinguishable from others in every way except their sexual desires or orientation. The New York Times recently published a sensational story about a teenage boy who went on line to entice more than 15,000 customers to watch his own pornographic images of himself. The Times reporter, acting less like a reporter and more like a crusading cop, coaxed the boy away from his life of debauchery, reminding him he would instantly switch from "victim" to "perpetrator" when he passed his 18th birthday. (Actually, those under 18 may be treated as perpetrators, too.) He helped get the boy to the FBI to close in on many of his key customers, whom the Times had further investigated on its own. These customers included police officers, lawyers, ministers, rabbis, social workers--and especially those who work with children and adolescents. Many also were parents and grandparents with ostensibly happy families of their own. Surely one sign that something is wrong with this picture is that the "heinous criminals" are otherwise law-abiding, decent human beings with successful careers and "normal" personal lives. No. With scapegoating, such apparent normalcy is just one more sign of devious perversity...


More at link.
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Zolt



Joined: 18 May 2006

PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 12:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

agentX wrote:
Crap like this is why the IRS should consider removing the church tax exemption.


Well actually this sect paid taxes and never filed for exemption. As to your other comments, I fully agree.
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mole



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Act III

PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 1:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is being liberal a biological disorder? Or a lifestyle choice?
Let's just hope it's not contagious.
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Mon May 26, 2008 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mole wrote:
Is being liberal a biological disorder? Or a lifestyle choice?
Let's just hope it's not contagious.

Likewise for incoherent rambling.

Now can we get back on topic?
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 11:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Victory finalized! Let's hope the children can get back with their parents ASAP.

It is nice to see the justice system worked in this case, but it still entailed parents and children being separated for two months! Let's hope they sue the state for damages now.


Court: Sect children should be returned to parents

By MICHELLE ROBERTS, Associated Press Writer

SAN ANTONIO - In a crushing blow to the state's massive seizure of children from a polygamist sect's ranch, the Texas Supreme Court ruled Thursday that child welfare officials overstepped their authority and the children should go back to their parents.

The high court affirmed a decision by an appellate court last week, saying Child Protective Services failed to show an immediate danger to the more than 400 children swept up from the Yearning For Zion Ranch nearly two months ago.

"On the record before us, removal of the children was not warranted," the justices said in their ruling issued in Austin.

The high court let stand the appellate court's order that Texas District Judge Barbara Walther return the children from foster care to their parents. It's not clear how soon that may happen, but the appellate court ordered her to do it within a reasonable time period.

The ruling shatters one of the largest child-custody cases in U.S. history. State officials said the removals were necessary to end a cycle of sexual abuse at the ranch in which teenage girls were forced to marry and have sex with older men, but parents denied any abuse and said they were being persecuted for their religious beliefs.

Every child at the ranch run by the Fundamentalist Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints in the west Texas town of Eldorado was removed; half were 5 or younger.

CPS officials said they were disappointed by the ruling but would take immediate steps to comply.

"We are disappointed, but we understand and respect the court's decision," the agency said in a written statement.

FLDS elder Willie Jessop said parents were excited about the court's decision but would remain apprehensive until they get their children back.

"We're just looking forward to when little children can be in the arms of their parents," he said. "Until you have your children in your hands, there's no relief. But we have hope."

Standing outside the Texas Supreme Court building with attorneys for the families, Martha Emack, mother of a 2-year-old and a 1-year-old, echoed that sentiment.

"I'm happy (when) all the children are back to their mothers and we're home," said Emack, whose children have been staying at an Austin children's shelter.

The case before the court technically only applies to the 124 children of 38 mothers who filed the complaint that prompted the ruling, but it significantly affects nearly all the children since they were removed under identical circumstances.

The Third Court of Appeals in Austin ruled last week that the state failed to show that any more than five of the teenage girls were being sexually abused, and had offered no evidence of sexual or physical abuse against the other children.

The FLDS, which teaches that polygamy brings glorification in heaven, is a breakaway sect of the Mormon church, which renounced polygamy more than a century ago.

Roughly 430 children from the ranch are in foster care after two births, numerous reclassifications of adult women initially held as minors and a handful of agreements allowing parents to keep custody while the Supreme Court considered the case.

Texas officials claimed at one point that there were 31 teenage girls at the ranch who were pregnant or had been pregnant, but later conceded that about half of those mothers, if not more, were adults. One was 27.

Under Texas law, children can be taken from their parents if there's a danger to their physical safety, an urgent need for protection and if officials made a reasonable effort to keep the children in their homes. The high court agreed with the appellate court that the seizures fell short of that standard.

CPS lawyers had argued that parents could remove their children from state jurisdiction if they regain custody, that DNA tests needed to confirm parentage are still pending and that the lower-court judge had discretion in the case.

The justices said child welfare officials can take numerous actions to protect children short of separating them from their parents and placing them in foster care, and that Walther may still put restrictions on the children and parents to address concerns that they may flee once reunited.
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Thu May 29, 2008 11:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

[quote="bacasper"]
Quote:
Sexual Fascism in Progressive America


The word fascism is so unbelievably over and misused. Can't you "unique snowflakes" think of a new term to call everything you dislike?
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 6:06 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

mises wrote:
Quote:
Sexual Fascism in Progressive America


The word fascism is so unbelievably over and misused. Can't you "unique snowflakes" think of a new term to call everything you dislike?

Did you even read the article? If you did, you might not consider it such hyperbole.
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SirFink



Joined: 05 Mar 2006

PostPosted: Fri May 30, 2008 11:57 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

bacasper wrote:
The whole witchhunt atmosphere surrounding the supposed threat posed by "sex predators" constitutes yet another leg of creeping state fascism, in addition to the "war on terrorism" pretext and the war on dissent at home.


Frankly, the state does't have the money or manpower to launch some massive fascist takeover. Texas, like most states, barely scrapes by with a huge lack of funds. Public schools have leaky roofs, neighborhoods are under-policed, people must wait in line for hours at the DMV, courts are booked solid causing months-long delays in trials, prisons are overcrowded, etc. And you're alleging that there are armies of jack-booted brown shirts loading up their guns in some secret underground state-funded fort just waiting for the right moment to strike?
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bacasper



Joined: 26 Mar 2007

PostPosted: Sat May 31, 2008 9:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The Counterpunch article I posted was not specific to Texas, but rather spoke of the country as a whole. Ontheway referred "the fascist state."
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