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aka Dave

Joined: 02 May 2008
Location: Down by the river

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 6:15 am Post subject:

Opec in the 1970s was gonna kill America. The defeat in Vietnam was gonna defeat America. The riots and the assinations of the 1960s was going to defeat America. The Soviet Union... And then what happened in the 90s? This thing called the internet, who invented that? We have had the worst, most corrupt, most inept administration in, literally, the history of our county for the past seven years. We're human beings, like everyone else. We can suck it up and move forward, and create a better country for ourselves and for the world. Seven years of digging a hole. If Obama is elected, maybe we start to stop the bleeding. If Obama is elected, don't count us out man. Dont count us out.

cheeseface

Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Location: Ssyangnyeon Shi

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 6:25 am Post subject:

edit Whoops posted on the wrong thread

caniff

Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 6:33 am Post subject:

Quote:

In 1994, Berners-Lee founded the World Wide Web Consortium (W3C) at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology. It comprised various companies that were willing to create standards and recommendations to improve the quality of the Web. Berners-Lee made his idea available freely, with no patent and no royalties due. The World Wide Web Consortium decided that their standards must be based on royalty-free technology, so they can be easily adopted by anyone.

Very cool.

edit: I was responding to what cheeseface just posted.

dmbfan

Joined: 09 Mar 2006

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 7:07 am Post subject:

Quote:

The only thing I was blessed with was being eligible for an American passport.

It sounds like a problem of self worth, rather then a problem of nationality.

Put your convictions to the test and give up your passport.

dmbfan

dmbfan

Joined: 09 Mar 2006

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 7:15 am Post subject:

Quote:

America has been great in past generations. But if we don't do a better job of conserving our resources, reducing crime, and rebuilding our own infrastructure and economy instead of destroying those of other countries, we'll continue on the Road to Great Depression II that we're heading down full-speed.

Really? Can you provide some sources and facts, other then a bunch of scare tactics created by the far left?

dmbfan

lastat06513

Joined: 18 Mar 2003
Location: Sensus amo Caesar , etiamnunc victus amo uni plebian

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 7:23 am Post subject:

Quote:

Put your convictions to the test and give up your passport.

If I were given a chance to get a Canadian or a British passport.....I definitely would.........

For sake of discussion, I know Canadians can go and live in Britain for a certain amount of time and can get citizenship and I know the same if the process is reversed......
But can Americans apply for British or Canadian citizenship the same way or do we have to go through the same process as other nationals?

oskinny1

Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Location: Right behind you!

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 7:24 am Post subject:

dmbfan wrote:

a bunch of scare tactics created by the far left?

We both know that's the Right's job.

oskinny1

Joined: 10 Nov 2006
Location: Right behind you!

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 7:27 am Post subject:

lastat06513 wrote:

Quote:

Put your convictions to the test and give up your passport.

It's because the US does not give allegiance to the Queen like the good Canadians and Aussies do. Maybe we should butter her up some? Mmmmm... Buttery Liz!

dmbfan

Joined: 09 Mar 2006

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 7:27 am Post subject:

Quote:

Yes, you do have a point.

However, it seems you are motivated enough to find out.............so...

...get 'er doooone.

dmbfan

cheeseface

Joined: 13 Jan 2008
Location: Ssyangnyeon Shi

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 7:44 am Post subject:

caniff wrote:

Quote:

Very cool.

edit: I was responding to what cheeseface just posted.

Actually I put up this link, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tim_Berners-Lee but thought better of getting into this pointless bitch fight of a thread..

But still, great work for a Brit to invent the internet we all use!!!

dmbfan

Joined: 09 Mar 2006

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 7:48 am Post subject:

Quote:

We both know that's the Right's job.

mmmm........well...................I would agree to say that they both share the job equally, just differently.

dmbfan

pastis

Joined: 20 Jun 2006

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:22 am Post subject:

bejarano-korea wrote:

Quote:

Well some might call it weakness (the Chinese probably see it that way), but benevolence really isn't far off. The sheer power of America could wreak utter havoc on the world, yet it doesn't. The main reason is that America is a democracy and people would riot in the streets. But if you find that laughable...

Because you are not a force of sheer evil like the nazis, it doesn't mean you are a force for good either. Who says you haven't wreaked havoc
on the world anyway? The people who voted for Alluende in Chile, The Cubans or the Iraqis might just say the United States did wreak havoc
in their world.

Those countries didn't get blown up, so it could have been worse.

Quote:

We could have depopulated the country. Carpet bombing is just a particularly severe scare tactic. Killing everyone systemically (by that I mean committing genocide, without the intention of ever trying to rule over the people, cuz there wouldn't be any left) is another matter altogether. But then you already knew that...

To kill everyone systematically is just an academic point, the US military wasn't big enough to do that in Vietnam and it cannot be done anyway as the military has to be big enough to kill every civillian and fight a war against a determined enemy - you could wipe out the enemy and then
kill the civillians but not the other way round or if you wanted to do that the Americans would have needed an army the size of Nazi Germany - and in a country like Vietnam that was never going to be possible.

And even then the nazis couldn't do it in Russia though they gave it a good go - 20 million within 4 years.

Sorry but you are wrong here. It is quite easy and straighforward to kill everyone when you have possess so much more power. A bunch of thugs did it in africa with nothing but machetes. The US had the most powerful army on earth. In Vietnam there was the odd village massacre and carpet bombing as you say, but that was just intended to demoralise and shock the enemy into giving up or losing hope (much as 'shock and awe' was in Iraq), not to kill them all. If you simply wanted to kill all of them you'd just start at some point and keeping marching forward, leaving no stone unturned, till everyone in your path was dead. You'd slash and burn all supplies and food leaving the enemy soldiers with nothing, then you'd just keep pressing till they were all either dead or had fled to neighboring countries. In the meantime you'd just bring in settlers (preferably poor, fanatical ones in it for free land), let them get set up with their familes etc., give them plenty of guns and supplies and watch them kill all the natives in their wake (not unlike what happened in the US to the natives). We had the power to do it in many places around the world, but didn't. That's simply not our wish.

Btw, Germany and Russia were two military superpowers clashing against each other. The US and Vietnam is no comparison.

Quote:

Yes, but you have done lots of bad things around the world as well. You think being no1 world superpower is a popularity contest? Please move over and let the Chinese show you how it's done!

Yes, that was pretty well my point in a nutshell. For all the people bitching about how evil America is, just take a look at China. They'd be infinitely worse if they were in America's shoes, just as Hitler's Germany was back in the day.

Thats probably true but what you are not going to get is the Chinese justifying how benevolent and kind they are once they are no1 superpower on the planet. (and as we all know that dog is barking)

As you very well know - being no1 superpower means being a badass - it is all very well using hindsight but we all know history is not going to be kind to the United States in a 100 years from now.

For example, if you got a Briton from Victorian England to talk about the British empire today - they would no doubt say what a force of good it was - how they brought christianity and civilised the savages - made them into white men and women. How they brought the industrial revolution to all corners of the world - but we all know that the British empire was an alturistic exercise to make our country richer. It takes hindsight and a neutral eye to judge accurately a superpower and like us the United States world empire will be judged very harshly in a 100 years from now.

Who cares how people judge the US really... The proof is in the pudding. We modernized the whole f-cking world (along with the Brits and other European powers before us). Everything China has is modelled on the west. We didn't have to let them have anything. We chose the current model of globalising the economy and sharing the wealth because that seems like the best way. No doubt we could genocided them all off, sent in our poor to colonize it wild west style, but we didn't. Hell don't even think of how much we've done for them, think about how much (bad) we haven't done to them that we could have. Did I mention that MacArthur was going to drop 100+ nukes on them, but was not allowed to?

Quote:

It wouldn't do you any good because there would be no more coca cola, nike trainers and big macs to sell would there? Profit! Thats what matters in regards US foreign policy and thats why you are top dogs - just don't expect anyones eternal gratitude though!

It's all relative. There are other ways to make profit that through international trade. We could just rape and pillage, steal their land and enslave them. THat would also be profitable, but we know it's easier and better to simply share the wealth. Everyone benefits. Most of the world seems happy to be modernizing (or 'Americanizing if you want to put it that way). Sure they work hard and deserve credit themselves for building their countries, but surely some appreciation is in order... (or at least an acknowlegement that we aren't evil incarnate Rolling Eyes

Quote:

Your involvment in world war 2 was purely on a profit basis on your part, you made money out of us, you made the British give up their empire (not that this was a bad thing but you steamed straight in afterwards as the colonial masters) you made the British sign 99 year land deals for old warships - you bothered because you made money out of it! Simple as that!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Destroyers_for_Bases_Agreement
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend_Lease
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Charter

Okay, so why didn't we just join with Hitler then? He had it all going on, controlled Europe and had done a shit load of damage to the Soviets. We could have just teamed up with Hitler, gotten you to give up your empire anyway, probably divied up your country, and crushed communism to boot. No, there are plenty of other reasons we helped you besides money. We share common ideals for one (and no it is not naive to say so).

Quote:

You could blow us out of the water - I have no doubt about that - but we aren't the people you should worry about - there are a bunch of ragtag jihadists who have killed 5000 US troops within 5 years of war in Iraq -
it is a war you (we - thank you Blair) are losing and there is no sign of victory.

Yeah I agree the Iraq war is quite foolish, but the point still stands. They would have it a loss worse if we had no regard for them whatsoever. Being a mere 'bully' doesn't work so well as being a merciless, unflinching killer. THe Chinese would probably do a more effective job.

Quote:

It wouldn't be so bad if you stopped asking us to help you out in your country's silly wars - we can't hold out your hand in Beruit, Somalia, Vietnam - that we helped you in Korea, Iraq, Kuwait and Afghanistan
is more than enough of a thank you for raping us up the backside during world war 2, we should thank you for making a profit out of a threat against our freedom. Twisted Evil

Chip on your shoulder, eh?

pastis

Joined: 20 Jun 2006

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 9:10 am Post subject:

Grab the Chickens Levi wrote:

Underwaterbob wrote:

pastis wrote:

...
... they [the world] should appreciate the fact we [America] aren't crushing them beneath our heals or dropping nukes on them.
...

I just came here to say that this is the most insane thing I have heard today.

The guy's just an antagonistic pr%ck, don't worry. He should realise that the majority of the rest of countries DO have nukes and if they tried it they'd get f'd up as well.

Damn I just replied to him and gave him the attention he so desperately craves. Oh well, I have a life, I'll get over it....

Rolling Eyes

You've got nothing.

The "majority of the rest of the countries" have nukes? Rolling Eyes

Aside from Russia and maybe (but not definitely) China, no country could retaliate if we nuked them. We could likely wipe out China in an all out preemptive attack before they could retaliate. When it comes to that kind of thing we dominate.

Anyway, thanks for your "input", but you better just keep to the chickens levi...

pastis

Joined: 20 Jun 2006

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 9:20 am Post subject:

Grab the Chickens Levi wrote:

pastis wrote:

America is by far the most powerful country in history. America is also a land of opportunity for the best and the brightest. It's not perfect, but we have accomplished more than any other any country, on a larger scale, given more to the world, and we have the ability to do pretty well whatever we want whether individually (such is the freedom we enjoy) or as a nation (and that would include winning any war outright, except maybe against Russia, if the will of the American people were actually behind it).

Economics/finance, trade, industry, academia, innovation, art/entertainment, military strength -- we dominate all this sh-t. Period.

People are people, but there isn't a country on earth that doesn't envy the USA.

I should only add that Europe (the EU) is also on the level, and I respect them as equals.

Lol don't you love the way almost every sentence contradicts itself or one above or below it. That's just so hard to do by mistake, I'm sure it was deliberate!

There is no contradiction. I defy you to list any.

bejarano-korea

Joined: 13 Dec 2006

Posted: Tue May 27, 2008 2:12 pm Post subject:

Quote:

Those countries didn't get blown up, so it could have been worse.

Rape, murder and overthrowing of democratic goverment is slightly less traumatic than being blown up - so thats all right then? Rolling Eyes

Fantastic logic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allegations_of_state_terrorism_by_the_United_States

Quote:

Sorry but you are wrong here. It is quite easy and straighforward to kill everyone when you have possess so much more power. A bunch of thugs did it in africa with nothing but machetes.

Now you are wrong - the majority Hutu population in Rwanda butchered the Tutsi minority population - it was a pogrom on racial lines - they killed a lot of people with machetes but there was no-one to oppose the Hutus apart from a toothless UN force made up of Belgians. I very ill thought of and innacurate comparison.

Quote:

The US had the most powerful army on earth. In Vietnam there was the odd village massacre and carpet bombing as you say, but that was just intended to demoralise and shock the enemy into giving up or losing hope (much as 'shock and awe' was in Iraq), not to kill them all.

You killed 5 million Vietnamese - bloody hell - that was some 'shock and awe' tactic - didn't bloody well work though did it?

Quote:

If you simply wanted to kill all of them you'd just start at some point and keeping marching forward, leaving no stone unturned, till everyone in your path was dead. You'd slash and burn all supplies and food leaving the enemy soldiers with nothing, then you'd just keep pressing till they were all either dead or had fled to neighboring countries. In the meantime you'd just bring in settlers (preferably poor, fanatical ones in it for free land), let them get set up with their familes etc., give them plenty of guns and supplies and watch them kill all the natives in their wake (not unlike what happened in the US to the natives). We had the power to do it in many places around the world, but didn't. That's simply not our wish.

You are missing a very very important point regarding human nature - and that is - people fight back - wherever it is in Belfast, Baghdad or the Ghettoes of Warsaw - no occupying army goes in and kills the whole population without getting hit back themselves - I mean - it is being proven in Baghdad right now - you are fighting a fanatical enemy who are
winning the war despite losing lots of men because they beleive in ending US occupation in their country - Pfc Melvin Cheeseburger III from Arkansas does not being that same kind of fantacism to the bunfight I'm afraid and neither do the public of the United States and thats why you lost in Beruit, Somailia, Vietnam and now Iraq - you can kill plenty of people from the air but sooner or later you need the men on the ground to the job and you don't have them! but this fantasy of the United States having the type of fanatic who will kill women and children and wipe a whole country's population out is a joke.

Quote:

Who cares how people judge the US really...

America cares! You and a lot of your countrymen are angry that we aren't grateful enough! Read through the thread again!

Quote:

The proof is in the pudding. We modernized the whole f-cking world (along with the Brits and other European powers before us). Everything China has is modelled on the west. We didn't have to let them have anything. We chose the current model of globalising the economy and sharing the wealth because that seems like the best way. No doubt we could genocided them all off,

You tried in Vietnam and Korea and it didn't work!

Quote:

sent in our poor to colonize it wild west style, but we didn't. Hell don't even think of how much we've done for them, think about how much (bad) we haven't done to them that we could have. Did I mention that MacArthur was going to drop 100+ nukes on them, but was not allowed to?

You are tricking up the history of what happened in Korea - McArthur pushed the NK forces back onto the Chinese border and wanted to blow up and then march into Peking - the Chinese then sent their army and pushed the Americans back as far as Busan - Truman publicly relived McArthur of his command because he effed up in such a way that the Korean war lasted another extra 2 years.

Quote:

A lot of third world countries would say thats what you have done anyway, would you not say thats what has happened in Iraq. Give us your oil Saddam or else!

Quote:

Chip on your shoulder, eh?

Not paticulary, but why stand by and listen to crap and the rewriting of history regarding your country's involvment regarding our role in world war 2? I couldn't care less about America to be honest though I'm happy to invite individual Americans to eat at my table in friendship! My country isn't perfect but I would never embellish it and its actions of the past because I know when it was no1 superpower - it was probably worse than America is today!

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