Korean Job Discussion Forums

[Voyeur]

I posted this question in another therad, but it seems to have been overlooked.

My question is, what is the public position of KAFLA vis-a-vis Foreign Teacher associations? They have said that they feel ATEK is not representative, and that has a certain logic to it given there are onbly 200 members. But AFAIK KAFLA also seems to have *publically* said they will oppose ANY FT association - ergo their main objection isn't that an association is non-representative, they object to them in principle.

I can understand why KAFLA would oppose any FT organization - they want conrol and fear higher wages. But is that really a publically supportable position? Don't they have to have another justification, if only for the press?

As a follow-up discussion, I'd invite any comments as to what you feel ANY FT organization can really accomplish - not just ATEK. Higher wages? In this economy? How much are untrained, 20-somethings really worth? Or, if minimum wages go up, will that make it harder for exceptional eachers to make exceptional wages? What are the economics of the situation?

[pkang0202]

The issue here isn't wages. It is fair labor practices and havng a voice to the government/hagwons.

What do you think will happen to hagwons if the majority of native teachers in their schools had a strike? No way the hagwons have enough Korean Englsih teachers to teach the classes. The parents would be in an uproar.

With the E2 regulations, the hagwon owners wouldn't be able to fire everyone and replace them with new teachers for months/even years.

[CentralCali]

[DongtanTony]

[ttompatz]

[Voyeur]

Hmm...so as far as anyone knows, KAFLA has not made any statements as to why they object to any kind of Teacher's association in principle? They have only said why they object to ATEK specificall, which is because they don't feel it has enough members to be representative?

[CentralCali]

The hagweon owners are afraid of this one because it has the encouragement of the Korean government. Once the new association has all the required paperwork filed/licenses issued/etc., then they very likely may have more than the current approximately 200 members. And that possibility scares the crud out of the thieves.

[Kimchieluver]

All the KAFLA has to do is plant one or two fake degree holders in ATEK and whammo! End of ATEK.

[Young FRANKenstein]

[Kimchieluver]

[CentralCali]

[Young FRANKenstein]

[DongtanTony]

It looks to me like someone's true colors are finally showing...

Pension...mandatory??

In theory..absolutely...in practice...not even close.

Check around your own neighborhood ttompatz...see how many hagwon workers aren't even presented with the option of participation.

Health insurance...mandatory??

In theory...absolutely...in practice...same argument applies.

Taxes can be dealt with...in theory...absolutely...in practice...hardly.

The gap between these theories and practices is exactly why organizations such as ATEK, even if they do not materialize into an actual recognized representative organization, should be attempted to be established.

The point is all knowing omniscient one...there shouldn't be the struggle that exists today. It's not like the hagwon industry in Korea was created yesterday...it's high time that the industry was regulated.

The more these issues are brought forth...the more "flash-in-the-pan" organizations that make the effort to establish themselves, and the more they bring to light the inconsistencies and outright illegal business practices that happen daily in this country...the more people like you and I will be able to make this type of employment more than the transient based industry it is today.

Furthermore...what KAFLA doesn't fully realize...and that they may never fully comprehend...is that the more stable their employees' lives are...the more stable their businesses will become...

But I guess my optimism and willingness to try and participate isn't worth a damn to you...stay in your little microcosm ttompatz...that'd be fine by me...if you like quotes...

"If he fails...at least he fails while doing greatly." Theodore Roosevelt

[Unposter]

Ttompatz has got the right idea. Most of the illegal activities by hakwons can be properly dealt with within the government/legal systems. The problem really lies in getting the information out and the foot dragging of hakwons who hope that if they make it as difficult as possible to collect it will discourage people to do anything about it.

In theory, there really isn't a need for the union to address issues which have a clear legal protection.

If a union is to succeed, it will have to do more.

[ttompatz]

This is the biggest pile of horse-shit that I have seen in a while.

HEADLINE: ATEK wants to begin dialogue with KAFLA

body:
A group of foreign English teachers proposed to open a dialogue channel with the runners of foreign language institutes, or hagwon, to work together for the common goal of the development of English language education.

How in the hell is that supposed to do anything about grievances? Where does it talk about unpaid salaries, pension contributions, medical, etc.

Perhaps a better plan would be setting up an organization to EDUCATE newbies as to what they are LEGALLY entitled to AND how to go about getting their benefits as required/entitled by law.

They don't need to fight with or get into bed with KAFLA or anyone else.

Like I said previously, from my perspective they are nothing more than a bunch of disgruntled hakwon workers pissing and moaning into the wind and they will all be finished and long gone before their pipe dream gets out of the gate.

They are nothing more than an excuse without a real direction looking for justification and a place to happen just like the last 1/2 dozen attempts before them and they still don't get my vote.

.