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Every adult in Britain should be forced to carry...

 
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:18 pm    Post subject: Every adult in Britain should be forced to carry... Reply with quote

Quote:
Every adult in Britain should be forced to carry 'carbon ration cards', say MPs

Every adult should be forced to use a 'carbon ration card' when they pay for petrol, airline tickets or household energy, MPs say.

Under the scheme, everyone would be given an annual carbon allowance to use when buying oil, gas, electricity and flights.The Government says it supports the scheme in principle, but warns it is 'ahead of its time'.

The idea of personal carbon trading is increasingly being promoted by environmentalists. In theory it could be used to cover all purchases - from petrol to food.

For the scheme to work, the Government would need to give out 45million carbon cards - each one linked to a personal carbon account. Every year, the account would be credited with a notional amount of CO2 in kilograms.

Every time someone makes a purchase of petrol, energy or airline tickets, they would use up credits. A return flight from London to Rome would, for instance, use up 900kg of CO2 credits, while 10 litres of petrol would use up 23kg.


Forgetting that:
Quote:

'The fact is that the global temperature of 2007 is statistically the same as 2006 and every year since 2001'.

http://www.newstatesman.com/scitech/2007/12/global-warming-temperature

And

Quote:
There IS a problem with global warming... it stopped in 1998

For many years now, human-caused climate change has been viewed as a large and urgent problem. In truth, however, the biggest part of the problem is neither environmental nor scientific, but a self-created political fiasco. Consider the simple fact, drawn from the official temperature records of the Climate Research Unit at the University of East Anglia, that for the years 1998-2005 global average temperature did not increase (there was actually a slight decrease, though not at a rate that differs significantly from zero).

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2006/04/09/do0907.xml

And:

Quote:

Next decade 'may see no warming'

The Earth's temperature may stay roughly the same for a decade, as natural climate cycles enter a cooling phase, scientists have predicted.

A new computer model developed by German researchers, reported in the journal Nature, suggests the cooling will counter greenhouse warming.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/7376301.stm

How many years does climate change have to stop for it to be 'stopped'? Will 20 be enough?

Anyways, us cantankerous globalwarmingaphobes always said that the whole thing was an exercise in leftist group think that would ultimately be used to control the everyday lives of citizens. I think forcing every citizen to carry a carbon-card (do you even have to carry an ID in the UK) is a step towards the skeptics being validated.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, what a fantastic idea to address the collective action global warming problem.
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doc_ido



Joined: 03 Sep 2007

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Every adult in Britain should be forced to carry... Reply with quote

Quote:
How many years does climate change have to stop for it to be 'stopped'? Will 20 be enough?


Probably not. It seems a bit premature to look at thousands of years of temperature data and then say that global warming doesn't exist because of what happened in the last ten.
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You mean the ever changing climate that has periods of warming and cooling? The UN panel scared the world with the "hockey stick" theory, which was the source of massive controversy. The stick rose and then leveled off, much like the previous warming period. The stick didn't represent an accurate assessment of the past, as the little ice age and Medieval warm period were absent. They then said this decade would see 0.3 degrees increase, which hasn't happened at all thus far. Now we hear a ten year break (article published in Nature) and THEN it will take off "again". Even Rajendra Pachauri, the head of the IPCC said there had been no change so far this century. Why in the world are we allowing ourselves to be whipped into a dither about this?

Well, I think I know why. And so does this dude:

http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/skidelsky5/English

Even IF the hockey stick idea were true, global warming would be a small problem for the earth. Bjorne Lomborg has done excellent work detailing how this overreaction comes at the expense of easily solved threats to human life like malaria and hunger. The world has finite funds available to solve problems such as this. We need to be rational, calm and measured in our approach.

Then, we add to the hysteria the push to bio-fuels that have helped to drive up food prices. Rich people in rich nations want to fill their cars/planes with food to massage their eco-ego.

It is all a farce. And group think like this is a serious threat to liberty.


Last edited by mises on Tue May 27, 2008 9:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 9:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember listening to a Harvard CD lecture series on global climate change.

The carbon surplus was measured by looking at the source and strength of carbon emitters versus the source and strength of carbon sinkholes. Right now, the world is emitting 20 times as much carbon as the sinkholes can absorb. The lecture series placed less emphasis on the certitude of a future, dire impact than on raising questions about what is going on. Being a lecture from an accredited academic institution, it was bereft of the kind of vulgar prophecies that would, for example, put New York under water within the next 50 years.

Right now, humanity is taking carbon from beneath the earth and pumping it into the atmosphere. Given the magnitude of this endeavour, I am skeptical of Mises' claims that all GW fears are simply leftist, clap-trap, group-think.
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Gopher



Joined: 04 Jun 2005

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Kuros wrote:
...I am skeptical of Mises' claims that all GW fears are simply leftist, clap-trap, group-think.


Global-warming appears to be very real and we need to study and apprehend it in all its dimensions, including sorting out the anthropogenic global-warming from the natural cycles that occur in the solar system and within the planet. Can we do anything about it? That remains an important question for us to address.

On the other hand leftist, clap-trap, group think nonsense is also very real and tends to ruins the discussion. Hyperbole like "the sky is falling!," for example. Some of it is absurd: if only W. Bush had signed Kyoto, Katrina would not have occurred.

In any case, I think both things are true: global-warming is real. And leftist hysteria ruins the discussion.
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doc_ido



Joined: 03 Sep 2007

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 10:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mises wrote:
Bjorne Lomborg has done excellent work detailing how this overreaction comes at the expense of easily solved threats to human life like malaria and hunger. The world has finite funds available to solve problems such as this.


This all depends on one's spending priorities. The cost, for example, of eradicating malaria is reckoned to be around $4 billion - $7 billion a year (presumably this will decrease once it's less prevalent). The cost of the current war in Iraq is around $100 billion a year. Which will save more lives?
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mole



Joined: 06 Feb 2003
Location: Act III

PostPosted: Tue May 27, 2008 11:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I propose oxygen rationing.
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saw6436



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Daejeon, ROK

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 6:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

And I vividly remember being taught in Middle School science class that the Earth would soon, early 21st Cent, enter a new Ice Age. Global Cooling was all the rage in the 1970s.
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Ya-ta Boy



Joined: 16 Jan 2003
Location: Established in 1994

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 1:24 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Under the scheme, everyone would be given an annual carbon allowance to use when buying oil, gas, electricity and flights.


Would Elizabeth II and a 2nd generation unemployed bloke in BumLick-upon-Avon have the same allowance?
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mises



Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Would Mexican-British get extra credits for dietary reasons? Would Hindu's get extra cause they don't eat cows? Oh, the ethnic pandering the multiculties could have..
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Toju



Joined: 06 Mar 2008

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 2:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sometimes I am ashamed to be British.
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Julius



Joined: 27 Jul 2006

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 3:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Movie stars, football players, politicians..etc will have to buy carbon credit from other folks. Most of them would use up their allowance in a month or so, flying across the atlantic twice a week.
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Kuros



Joined: 27 Apr 2004

PostPosted: Wed May 28, 2008 6:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mises wrote:
Would Mexican-British get extra credits for dietary reasons? Would Hindu's get extra cause they don't eat cows? Oh, the ethnic pandering the multiculties could have..


It would be a good program if compliance were voluntary and rewarded with tax breaks.
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