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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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 Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 9:33 pm Post subject: |
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Okay, Mith, but how I-Guy was coming off was unaccepting (to say the least) of the atheist position.
Reading his posts, it really seems like he doesn't get it.
Like, REEEEALLLY doesn't get it.
Last edited by caniff on Wed May 28, 2008 9:35 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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| Posted: Wed May 28, 2008 9:35 pm Post subject: |
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| ITWG repeatedly accuses both athiests and theists of claiming definitive proof of god's (non)existence when neither side has claimed either. He's more or less arguing with himself. |
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caniff
Joined: 03 Feb 2004
Location: All over the map
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blurgalurgalurga
Joined: 18 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 12:40 am Post subject: |
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Cool. He really manned up. |
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itaewonguy
Joined: 25 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 1:45 am Post subject: |
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| mindmetoo wrote: |
No. He won. You lost another one. |
What did he win? How to insult louder? That�s all he was doing!
He has NEVER ONCE! In any thread proven anything! R teacher owned him
bovinesackofshite owned him! And I have also called him out!
He never posts anything because he has nothing! all he does is argue and call names..
| caniff wrote: |
| I-Guy, you got it handed to you in this one. Read back through and it might dawn on you why that is. |
NO... this is not about Atheists already knowing there is no way to prove god! That�s the only way out when backed into a corner for them! This is about how they go around preaching to others how right they think they are!
Don�t get confused on this debate now! The atheists know exactly what this is about!! But to save face they play the OH WELL OF COURSE DUH card.. But they don�t believe it to be true though...and this is where we are at...
| caniff wrote: |
Okay, Mith, but how I-Guy was coming off was unaccepting (to say the least) of the atheist position.
Reading his posts, it really seems like he doesn't get it.
Like, REEEEALLLY doesn't get it. |
jessuuusss..
No you don�t get it..
Atheists believe god doesn�t exist! And they attack theists for believing in something which is a fairytale in their eyes!
So I say to Atheists how is you believing in A THEORY any different!?
So let�s not get off track here ok.. Atheists have nothing so I really don�t know how so many people on Daves can be atheists! Its either you are all completely stupid or you just want to be in a team!
So the people here who don�t get it! Are people who believe in something without fact! IE- THE ATHIESTS! THE THIESTS! And the monkey king!!
| Quote: |
| [quote="Underwaterbob"]ITWG repeatedly accuses both atheists and theists of claiming definitive proof of god's (non)existence when neither side has claimed either. He's more or less arguing with himself. |
NO! Atheists believe it! Just as Theists do... Atheists are on the attacking!
They are in as much deep water as the theists but they like to think they are sitting comfortable on land while the theists are drowning...
I�ve called them out hundreds of times on here, and they want to brush it off... they have nothing and they are drowning fast!! Don�t you see when Rteacher argues with them! He presents a perfect case! Can�t be disputed
Atheists present a case in their eyes also can�t be disputed! Theists too
So all I am saying is, no one can prove chit! So when debating don�t try and call other teams stupid when your camp has nothing either...
Mind me too, Ed, Justin, and the other Dakwin brats! All believe god to be a fantasy! And all I am saying is... is that right!?? So you can prove this?
Even dawkins hitchens or the other idiots can�t! So how the hell are some washed up teachers going to?
when debating dont be so sure of yourself! becuase someone like me will come along and ask you to put your money where your mouth is!
and when that happens you will go off topic and start calling names! |
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Omkara
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 5:56 pm Post subject: |
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A theory is highly tested, can make predictions, is used to cure disease, to produce technology,etc., etc.
Religion cannot make a single prediction which is statistically significant.
What does religion offer but a good feeling?
I'm waiting. . . |
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Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
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| Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Omkara wrote: |
What does religion offer but a good feeling?
I'm waiting. . . |
It offers life.
You're right, though. Religion is a poor vehicle for explaining efficient causation. It may be almost necessary (I stress the almost) for establishing a final causation, however. Whether or not it is necessary, it is certainly useful, and goes beyond offering a transient good feeling. |
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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| Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 6:24 pm Post subject: |
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| itaewonguy wrote: |
...
So when debating don�t try and call other teams stupid when your camp has nothing either...
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You call a lot of people stupid for having convictions they lack proof for. What alternative do you offer them? I think you need to follow your own advice. |
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Omkara
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| Kuros wrote: |
| Omkara wrote: |
What does religion offer but a good feeling?
I'm waiting. . . |
It offers life.
You're right, though. Religion is a poor vehicle for explaining efficient causation. It may be almost necessary (I stress the almost) for establishing a final causation, however. Whether or not it is necessary, it is certainly useful, and goes beyond offering a transient good feeling. |
That assumes there is final causation in some ultimate sense. But, does this not at once negate freedom?
I can have a final cause, self or circumstantially determined; but the universe? Then, if someone claims to hold knowledge or authority over that final cause (ie, religion), haven't we tyranny to fear?
I find the idea of "the" meaning of life to be a most fearful proposition. |
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Rteacher
Joined: 23 May 2005
Location: Western MA, USA
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| Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 8:25 pm Post subject: |
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I think the real fear is that we have an eternal spiritual identity - and deep-down we know we've messed up to get into our material predicament.
A Supreme Person's dominion over us implies loss of freedom?
Great existentialist philosophers concluded that the only real freedom we can exercise in the material condition is to commit suicide.
If we are all part of the same Supreme Soul but were willed to become individual souls in order for the Original Person to experience infinite varieties of loving relationships, then our essential nature is to render some type of service - ultimately for the satisfaction of the Complete Whole.
If the personal aspect of God remains unknown to us (mainly due to our ignorance) then there is naturally more fear than love.
Like Bob Dylan noted, we all "Gotta Serve Somebody". Eventually, we will realize that the only way we can experience lasting happiness is to revive our dormant God consciousness and dovetail our desires with the will of the Supreme Enjoyer. |
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Stevie_B
Joined: 14 May 2008
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| Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 8:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
I think the real fear is that we have an eternal spiritual identity - and deep-down we know we've messed up to get into our material predicament.
A Supreme Person's dominion over us implies loss of freedom?
Great existentialist philosophers concluded that the only real freedom we can exercise in the material condition is to commit suicide.
If we are all part of the same Supreme Soul but were willed to become individual souls in order for the Original Person to experience infinite varieties of loving relationships, then our essential nature is to render some type of service - ultimately for the satisfaction of the Complete Whole.
If the personal aspect of God remains unknown to us (mainly due to our ignorance) then there is naturally more fear than love.
Like Bob Dylan noted, we all "Gotta Serve Somebody". Eventually, we will realize that the only way we can experience lasting happiness is to revive our dormant God consciousness and dovetail our desires with the will of the Supreme Enjoyer. |
But Bob Dylan noted that when he was in his God-awful preachy born-again Christian phase. |
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Underwaterbob
Joined: 08 Jan 2005
Location: In Cognito
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| Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 9:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Rteacher wrote: |
I think the real fear is that we have an eternal spiritual identity - and deep-down we know we've messed up to get into our material predicament.
A Supreme Person's dominion over us implies loss of freedom?
Great existentialist philosophers concluded that the only real freedom we can exercise in the material condition is to commit suicide.
If we are all part of the same Supreme Soul but were willed to become individual souls in order for the Original Person to experience infinite varieties of loving relationships, then our essential nature is to render some type of service - ultimately for the satisfaction of the Complete Whole.
If the personal aspect of God remains unknown to us (mainly due to our ignorance) then there is naturally more fear than love.
Like Bob Dylan noted, we all "Gotta Serve Somebody". Eventually, we will realize that the only way we can experience lasting happiness is to revive our dormant God consciousness and dovetail our desires with the will of the Supreme Enjoyer. |
If, if, if...
Does your faith condone suicide to subvert our "material predicament"? Your faith seems to teach complete lack of regard for this life. No thanks. |
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Omkara
Joined: 18 Feb 2006
Location: USA
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| Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 9:54 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| RTeacher wrote:I think the real fear is that we have an eternal spiritual identity - and deep-down we know we've messed up to get into our material predicament. |
We? You may have, but I shot mine! So much for eternity!
| Quote: |
| A Supreme Person's dominion over us implies loss of freedom? |
Yes. There is no way around it. If there is a final cause toward all things strive, ie "God's Plan," then all causality must conform thereto. Hence, even choice has no real meaning.
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| Great existentialist philosophers concluded that the only real freedom we can exercise in the material condition is to commit suicide. |
You've misunderstood. Suicide is an example of a possible choice, hence of a possible mode of expressing freedom.
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If we are all part of the same Supreme Soul but were willed to become individual souls in order for the Original Person to experience infinite varieties of loving relationships, then our essential nature is to render some type of service - ultimately for the satisfaction of the Complete Whole. |
Warm and fuzzy language makes us feel good, but may have no relationship with truth. I could as well assert that god is the tickliness of things. . .
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| If the personal aspect of God remains unknown to us (mainly due to our ignorance) then there is naturally more fear than love. |
God remains (mostly due to our ignorance).
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| Like Bob Dylan noted, we all "Gotta Serve Somebody". Eventually, we will realize that the only way we can experience lasting happiness is to revive our dormant God consciousness and dovetail our desires with the will of the Supreme Enjoyer. |
Sounds like masochism to me.
If we concede that there exists The Final Cause, then we will serve someone.
I prize the sanctuary of the free mind more than any man's profane idol. |
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