| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
 Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 1:38 pm Post subject: |
 |
|
| yawarakaijin wrote: |
I honestly think there needs to be a new term for these kind of people. The "left", as far as I considered it, was about defending humanity (muslim or christian or whatever) even if it meant that you had to step on a few dictators' toes if absolutely necessary.
The Balkans in the 90's being a prime example. Remember how fast that war ended once the administration got around to actually hurting the serbs with airstrikes. Right , wrong, black, white, grey. I don't really give a crap. That war was brought to an immediate halt with a few good bombing runs. |
Saddam was a much greater killer than Milosovich.
I think your are getting liberals mixed up with the left |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
mises
Joined: 05 Nov 2007
Location: retired
|
| Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 1:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Quote: |
The Chinese have the ability to wreck our currency and economy without firing a shot.
|
Hyperbole. Dumping their foreign reserves would be as much a disaster for them as it would be for the USA. And the US would be able to raise interest rates to 8 or 9% for a couple years or less and mop up the excess bucks. This will probably happen anyways over the next 5 years.
And even if that failed, the US can lean on friendly states to mop up some of the extra bucks the Chinese dumped.
| Quote: |
| We hysterically crapped our pants last summer when they whispered about dumping dollars onto the market. |
Hyperbole. Who "crapped"? In my financial and economic travels I witnessed "concern" placated by reality. And China didn't "whisper" the phrase the state media used was "nuclear option".
The political left is not only bitter and rude, as Gopher said, it is also obsessed with hyperbole and sky-is-falling nonsense. For secular types, they sure have been influenced by the New and Old Testament. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RJjr
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp
|
| Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 3:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| mises wrote: |
Hyperbole. Dumping their foreign reserves would be as much a disaster for them as it would be for the USA. And the US would be able to raise interest rates to 8 or 9% for a couple years or less and mop up the excess bucks. This will probably happen anyways over the next 5 years.
And even if that failed, the US can lean on friendly states to mop up some of the extra bucks the Chinese dumped. |
I don't think you're aware of how vast their USD reserves are. They amount to over $900,000,000,000.00. (twice as much as we've wasted in Iraq so far, to put it in perspective). Look at the foreclosure disaster in the US these days with 2% interest rates, yet you think 8% or 9% interest rates would be wonderful?
A weak dollar wouldn't hurt China long-term. I tend to agree with Peter Schiff's assertion that it would cause a surge in the purchasing power of China and its citizens.
| mises wrote: |
| Hyperbole. Who "crapped"? |
Who crapped? Paulson and others.
| mises wrote: |
| The political left is not only bitter and rude, as Gopher said, it is also obsessed with hyperbole and sky-is-falling nonsense. For secular types, they sure have been influenced by the New and Old Testament. |
Look at our reasons for attacking Iraq if you want to see hyperbole and sky-is-falling nonsense. What color is the threat level today? 
Hyperbole in Boston. http://youtube.com/watch?v=4G-D0F4Q9yk |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
| Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 3:57 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Lower dollar would wipe out the trade deficit w/china.
I am sure China would just love that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 4:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
and don't forget the inflation that would go along with it.
That's one of the benefits of globalization. Can't screw another country over without biting your own ass real badly. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RJjr
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp
|
| Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 4:11 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bucheon bum wrote: |
and don't forget the inflation that would go along with it.
That's one of the benefits of globalization. Can't screw another country over without biting your own ass real badly. |
It would cause inflation in the US because of the flood of dollars. In China, it would cause goods to cheapen. For example, look at the amount of oil we consume. If we consumed 75% less overnight, would that cause the price of oil to go up or down on the world market? I think it would go down. A lot. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
| Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 4:13 pm Post subject: |
|
|
If the US govt. says nothing about a threat like before 9-11 then the US govt. Is ripped . If the US says there is a threat and then nothing happens then the US is govt is ripped.
Just goes to show you that some people are going to go after the US govt no matter what. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
| Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 4:21 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| RJjr wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
and don't forget the inflation that would go along with it.
That's one of the benefits of globalization. Can't screw another country over without biting your own ass real badly. |
It would cause inflation in the US because of the flood of dollars. In China, it would cause goods to cheapen. For example, look at the amount of oil we consume. If we consumed 75% less overnight, would that cause the price of oil to go up or down on the world market? I think it would go down. A lot. |
What would a lower dollar do for US exports and outsourcing?
If China dumped dollars it would boom the euro which would increase US exports even more.
Some people are never satisfied. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 4:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| RJjr wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
and don't forget the inflation that would go along with it.
That's one of the benefits of globalization. Can't screw another country over without biting your own ass real badly. |
It would cause inflation in the US because of the flood of dollars. In China, it would cause goods to cheapen. For example, look at the amount of oil we consume. If we consumed 75% less overnight, would that cause the price of oil to go up or down on the world market? I think it would go down. A lot. |
Inflation in the us means we buy fewer Chinese products. That would hurt the chinese economy. As joo noted, it would alter the trade balance dramatically. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RJjr
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp
|
| Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 4:47 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
If the US govt. says nothing about a threat like before 9-11 then the US govt. Is ripped . If the US says there is a threat and then nothing happens then the US is govt is ripped.
Just goes to show you that some people are going to go after the US govt no matter what. |
Maybe it's just me, but I would've preferred them to have done something about the terrorists instead of CARTOONS! |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RJjr
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp
|
| Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 4:51 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| bucheon bum wrote: |
| RJjr wrote: |
| bucheon bum wrote: |
and don't forget the inflation that would go along with it.
That's one of the benefits of globalization. Can't screw another country over without biting your own ass real badly. |
It would cause inflation in the US because of the flood of dollars. In China, it would cause goods to cheapen. For example, look at the amount of oil we consume. If we consumed 75% less overnight, would that cause the price of oil to go up or down on the world market? I think it would go down. A lot. |
Inflation in the us means we buy fewer Chinese products. That would hurt the chinese economy. As joo noted, it would alter the trade balance dramatically. |
Lower prices in China means they can buy more of their own products. The Chinese flooding the market with dollars is basically a moot point anyway, since the Fed is already doing that. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee
Joined: 25 May 2003
|
| Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 5:00 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| RJjr wrote: |
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
If the US govt. says nothing about a threat like before 9-11 then the US govt. Is ripped . If the US says there is a threat and then nothing happens then the US is govt is ripped.
Just goes to show you that some people are going to go after the US govt no matter what. |
Maybe it's just me, but I would've preferred them to have done something about the terrorists instead of CARTOONS! |
You never know the nature of a threat until it happens or doesn't.
| Quote: |
| Lower prices in China means they can buy more of their own products. The Chinese flooding the market with dollars is basically a moot point anyway, since the Fed is already doing that. |
How much money doesn't the Chinese consumer have any way?
Well it looks that China is really getting up their their per capita GDP will get all the way up to 3000 in 2020
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-04/24/content_326000.htm
They can really buy lots of stuff with that.
Right now China's per person GDP is less than 1,800 dollars a person. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
RJjr
Joined: 17 Aug 2006
Location: Turning on a Lamp
|
| Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 5:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
| You never know the nature of a threat until it happens or doesn't. |
That kind of logic has gotten over 4,000 of our men killed in Iraq over nothing.
| Joo Rip Gwa Rhhee wrote: |
How much money doesn't the Chinese consumer have any way?
Well it looks that China is really getting up their their per capita GDP will get all the way up to 3000 in 2020
http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/english/doc/2004-04/24/content_326000.htm
They can really buy lots of stuff with that.
Right now China's per person GDP is a little over 1,000 dollars a person. |
But the Chinese actually have money. We're in debt. We're like the guy in the neighborhood a Rolex, Jaguar, Armani suit, all bought with more loans than he can ever repay. The Chinese are like the guy in the cheap car with the "Don't Laugh. It's Paid For." bumper sticker.
The Chinese save half of their income, while we spend more than we earn and are losing our homes at a record pace because of debt and we even take money from home equity to spend.
Our level of personal and national debt is killing our national economy, personal finances, and the dollar itself. We're at our limit as consumers.
Here's what Peter Schiff has to say about the future of the dollar and our consumption: http://europac.net/Schiff-FBN-5-23-08_lg.asp |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Kuros
Joined: 27 Apr 2004
|
| Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 5:39 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| RJjr wrote: |
| mises wrote: |
Hyperbole. Dumping their foreign reserves would be as much a disaster for them as it would be for the USA. And the US would be able to raise interest rates to 8 or 9% for a couple years or less and mop up the excess bucks. This will probably happen anyways over the next 5 years.
And even if that failed, the US can lean on friendly states to mop up some of the extra bucks the Chinese dumped. |
I don't think you're aware of how vast their USD reserves are. They amount to over $900,000,000,000.00. (twice as much as we've wasted in Iraq so far, to put it in perspective). Look at the foreclosure disaster in the US these days with 2% interest rates, yet you think 8% or 9% interest rates would be wonderful? |
That's right. They have 900 billion reasons to keep the dollar strong.
Its a good thing for the US that China holds those reserves. Its a good thing for China that China holds those reserves. They are hedging against their own economic failure, just as Japan did with purchases of US currency in the late 80s/early 90s.
| RJjr wrote: |
| A weak dollar wouldn't hurt China long-term. I tend to agree with Peter Schiff's assertion that it would cause a surge in the purchasing power of China and its citizens. |
They are still an export economy, and although they seem to be getting off the FDI train, part of this was forced by WTO regulations. China is not in a flexible position right now with the cost of oil and food commodities rising. Conservative by nature, Chinese leadership is unlikely to make big moves with unforeseen consequences. I do not know who Peter Schiff is, but his opinion (as you express it) suggests to me that he does not understand that China is a country of 300 million people living in the 20th century and 1 billion people still living in the pre-industrial era. It will take more than simply exchange rates to meaningfully lift the purchasing power of 'China and its citizens.' |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
bucheon bum
Joined: 16 Jan 2003
|
| Posted: Thu May 29, 2008 6:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Yes. A little simplistic there RJer and requiring a big assumption that does not reflect reality. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Register
Profile
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
