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Chillin' Villain
Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Location: Goo Row
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 Posted: Fri May 30, 2008 5:06 pm Post subject: |
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| aka Dave wrote: |
chest/triceps - monday
back-tuesday
hamstrings/calfs - wednesday
biceps-thursday
shoulders-friday
hell day saturday: squats, deadlifts, hack squats
REST: sunday
But I'm having trouble advancing in weight. So I wonder if I'm overtraining and not resting enough. Anyway, my fav site is this.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/index.html
Great for newbs like me. |
Although the site is certainly filled with crap, enough browsing on bb.com should show you that an entire workout devoted to bis is bollocks. The problem is bb.com IS that there are so many newbs, and that it is full of guys that have no foundation and are obsessed with iso-training. Seriously, you are most likely not overtraining. There is a very good chance you are merely burning away calories on lifts that have little benefit to you at your current stage of development. I don't mean this in any negative way whatsoever, but bis having their own day was 10,000 red flags up at once. So was all your REAL lifts (squats, deads) on one day. Of course everybody has their own thing, but I really can't see how that program would work for many people. Go ahead and do your thing (hell, I went through a slough of useless programs), but the one that has had best results for me is right here:
http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Linear_5x5.htm
It's been bandied around bb.com for a good reason: It works. A full-body workout three times a week may not seem like much, but if done properly it should eventually tire you out worse than what you're doing now by far. With a proper diet it should have you bigger and in better shape, too. |
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Chillin' Villain
Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Location: Goo Row
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aka Dave
Joined: 02 May 2008
Location: Down by the river
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| Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 12:04 am Post subject: |
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| Chillin' Villain wrote: |
| aka Dave wrote: |
chest/triceps - monday
back-tuesday
hamstrings/calfs - wednesday
biceps-thursday
shoulders-friday
hell day saturday: squats, deadlifts, hack squats
REST: sunday
But I'm having trouble advancing in weight. So I wonder if I'm overtraining and not resting enough. Anyway, my fav site is this.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/index.html
Actually, I wasn't planning on doing a bisceps day (I'm only in the third week of my program), but last thursday my entire body was a bit sore so I did bisceps only as a sort of "off day".
But I'm interested in that 5x5 program. What do you do on your off days?
As a former runner, I *have* to exercise 6 days a week, preferably intensly. It just makes me feel better for the day, physically and psychologically.
Can you do other workouts on the off-days? Cardio? Arms?
As I said, I'm a newbie with serious weigh training, though I've been going to the gym and lifting for years, I was focused on running.
Great for newbs like me. |
Although the site is certainly filled with crap, enough browsing on bb.com should show you that an entire workout devoted to bis is bollocks. The problem is bb.com IS that there are so many newbs, and that it is full of guys that have no foundation and are obsessed with iso-training. Seriously, you are most likely not overtraining. There is a very good chance you are merely burning away calories on lifts that have little benefit to you at your current stage of development. I don't mean this in any negative way whatsoever, but bis having their own day was 10,000 red flags up at once. So was all your REAL lifts (squats, deads) on one day. Of course everybody has their own thing, but I really can't see how that program would work for many people. Go ahead and do your thing (hell, I went through a slough of useless programs), but the one that has had best results for me is right here:
http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Linear_5x5.htm
It's been bandied around bb.com for a good reason: It works. A full-body workout three times a week may not seem like much, but if done properly it should eventually tire you out worse than what you're doing now by far. With a proper diet it should have you bigger and in better shape, too. |
Actually, I wasn't planning on doing a bisceps day (I'm only in the third week of my program), but last thursday my entire body was a bit sore so I did bisceps only as a sort of "off day".
But I'm interested in that 5x5 program. What do you do on your off days?
As a former runner, I *have* to exercise 6 days a week, preferably intensly. It just makes me feel better for the day, physically and psychologically.
Can you do other workouts on the off-days? Cardio? Arms?
As I said, I'm a newbie with serious weigh training, though I've been going to the gym and lifting for years, I was focused on running.
I like bb.com just cause they have videos of lots of exercises. Another question - is it okay to work out muscles that are kinda sore? Not injured muscles, but sore muscles?
I agree that program looks pretty intense, and I'm definitely a big believer in squats. But any off-day workout advice would be really appreciated. |
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Temporary
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 12:06 am Post subject: |
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| You have no compund excercises in your routine. |
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Temporary
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 12:07 am Post subject: |
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Sorry dood your avatar reminds me of the oof I let out when I take a shit. |
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thematrixiam
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 12:14 am Post subject: |
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| Chillin' Villain wrote: |
http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Linear_5x5.htm
It's been bandied around bb.com for a good reason: It works. A full-body workout three times a week may not seem like much, but if done properly it should eventually tire you out worse than what you're doing now by far. With a proper diet it should have you bigger and in better shape, too. |
wow.... only 3 exercises. I'd be worried about being disproportioned.
like huge quads, pecs and lats. oh, and maybe traps.
your doing next to nothing for forearms, tris, and calves. |
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bogey666
Joined: 17 Mar 2008
Location: Korea, the ass free zone
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| Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 1:03 am Post subject: |
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| thematrixiam wrote: |
| Chillin' Villain wrote: |
http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Linear_5x5.htm
It's been bandied around bb.com for a good reason: It works. A full-body workout three times a week may not seem like much, but if done properly it should eventually tire you out worse than what you're doing now by far. With a proper diet it should have you bigger and in better shape, too. |
wow.... only 3 exercises. I'd be worried about being disproportioned.
like huge quads, pecs and lats. oh, and maybe traps.
your doing next to nothing for forearms, tris, and calves. |
the guy should definitely be doing LOTS of compound exercises.
bicep only day is madness. Bis should be done either with tris on same day.. or with back in a push pull routine (my preference is with tris)
triceps are what makes your arms look big btw.. not biceps.
but personally I disagree with too much a focus and frankly wasting time on things like forearms and calves, unless you are super seriously into it.. and thinking of competing (even in "natural" contests)
do them if you want, but they should be dead last in list of priorities.
p.s. full body workout thrice a week is madness.
no more than twice. |
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thematrixiam
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 2:08 am Post subject: |
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| bogey666 wrote: |
p.s. full body workout thrice a week is madness.
no more than twice. |
haha, you said thrice.
I usually do fullbody twice a week. I have tossed in full body 3 times a week. or even 1 day of full body.
it all depends on what I am feeling, and how my muscles are reacting. Sometimes I just feel like I need to blow my muscles a little more. |
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Bryan
Joined: 29 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 2:26 am Post subject: |
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| bogey666 wrote: |
p.s. full body workout thrice a week is madness.
no more than twice. |
Why is it madness?
I do full body workouts 2-3x per week, plus a lot of judo and boxing training. Full body is the only way to hit everything I need enough with enough variety. |
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thematrixiam
Joined: 31 Oct 2007
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| Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 4:27 am Post subject: |
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now lets define this fullbody workout here 1 sec.
when I say I do fullbody work out 2 x a week. I mean over a whole week my fullbody gets worked out. not just 1 day full body x 2.
but instead, 1/3 of my body per day * 3 = 3 days. * 2 = full body done twice in a week.
when I say I do it 3 x in a week. I mean I do 1/2 full body per day over 6 days.
and if I say specifically full body in a day, then obviously I am working all, or at least most of my bodies muscles in a day...
not sure if peeps are getting confused or not. cause I'm not sure. |
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bogey666
Joined: 17 Mar 2008
Location: Korea, the ass free zone
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| Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 4:59 am Post subject: |
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| Bryan wrote: |
| bogey666 wrote: |
p.s. full body workout thrice a week is madness.
no more than twice. |
Why is it madness?
I do full body workouts 2-3x per week, plus a lot of judo and boxing training. Full body is the only way to hit everything I need enough with enough variety. |
I'm all for individualism in one's training if you haven't noticed.
however..
I should have been more clear on my assumptions.
your workout doesn't sound like a lifting regimen. I am talking about lifting regimens.
by full body workout thrice a week (yeah I said thrice.. so?)
I am assuming you are hitting at least the major muscle groups with intensity and sets in the 12-16 range per muscle group.
3 x a week?
if that's the case, you're not building muscle, you're constantly destroying it (lifting is all about tearing muscle fiber, and then allowing it to grow back stronger and with more fibers)
p.s. matrix so you're doing a daily double split.. but IMHO you're still overtraining.. but if it works for you, who am I am to argue. Each time you hit the chest hard, you're also training to a certain degree your shoulders and tris and each time you hit back your back hard, you are training your biceps. No way if you're doing those 3x a week can the smaller muscle groups recuperate. if your arms aren't that big, now you know why.
I've found the best routine for me is 3 on, one off, 3 on.. and even then taking an occasional full rest day on top of it. I like to hit the full body over the course of 4, even 5 days but when I get into the regimen fully, the days I hit certain body parts. I try to hit them HARD.
my levels of soreness, and then strength and appearance give me the feedback if I'm on the right track. |
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Temporary
Joined: 13 Jan 2008
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| Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 5:22 am Post subject: |
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I haven't been sore for ages..
Before a match I usually do two weeks everyday, 1 hour pit workout, I alternate between Legs, Upper, Full. I then have 1 hour Kickboxing class. I also run with a weight vest of 10 kilos for about 5 Kilometers. I then usually spar or go on the heavy bag for 30-40 minutes..
I usually am exhausted, dehydrated and absent upstairs at the end of the two weeks.
I never train this hard usually just a 4 kilometer run 2Xpit, 5 days of kickboxing. |
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chotaerang
Joined: 23 Mar 2004
Location: In the gym
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| Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 5:25 am Post subject: |
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| Cornfed, would you post or pm me your numbers in the powerlifts? Also, where are you located? |
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Chillin' Villain
Joined: 13 Mar 2003
Location: Goo Row
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| Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 8:58 am Post subject: |
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About 5x5 being too many full-body days:
It's certainly a tough program in some ways and you've got to eat and sleep properly, but it's not self-destruction. First off, it's low-rep: just five per set, focused on strength-building (There is one set of 8 for a little hypertrophy on heavy days). It's a 3-day cycle, but they're not all exactly the same. The middle day is a light day, and you only do 4 sets of each exercise. With proper food and rest there is plenty of time to recover. Fridays are heavy days with new PRs for squats, bench, and rows, so everything goes up, but then there's the whole weekend to rest up after that.
It's been working really well for me and a few other guys I know for months now. I've been able to increase my max lifts for the major exercises (squats, deads, bench, rows) by at least a couple kilos, if not more, every week. That adds up.
About 5x5 being disproportionate w/ so many compounds and w/o iso-lifts:
On the contrary. The body works as a SYSTEM, so compound lifts train all your smaller groups as well. If your tris suck, it will show up in your bench; if your calves are like chopsticks, squatting will bring them up, etc, etc. Although you CAN add some isos in after the compounds, they should just be done as assistance lifts. I like wide-grip pullups and weighted hyperextensions for those, but arm work is fun sometimes too. Seriously, focusing on bis and tris too much is what's going to make someone disproportionate.
| aka Dave wrote: |
But I'm interested in that 5x5 program. What do you do on your off days?
As a former runner, I *have* to exercise 6 days a week, preferably intensly. It just makes me feel better for the day, physically and psychologically.
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On three of the other days (tues, thurs, sat) I run for about 45 minutes and do about 25 minutes of core/ab exercises. Sundays are off.
I dunno, I love this program, and I know a lot of others that do too. The challenge and satisfaction of increasing your max lifts every week is good incentive, and I've grown a LOT in the last year, especially in shoulder/back/chest width. Seriously, doing squats and all that stuff aren't too appealing to a lot of people because they're hard and not quite as appealing as bicep curls or whatever, but they're probably the most important and effective single lift you can do. |
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gluestick
Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Location: Seoul
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| Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Posted: Sat May 31, 2008 12:14 am Post subject:
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Chillin' Villain wrote:
http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Linear_5x5.htm
It's been bandied around bb.com for a good reason: It works. A full-body workout three times a week may not seem like much, but if done properly it should eventually tire you out worse than what you're doing now by far. With a proper diet it should have you bigger and in better shape, too.
wow.... only 3 exercises. I'd be worried about being disproportioned.
like huge quads, pecs and lats. oh, and maybe traps.
your doing next to nothing for forearms, tris, and calves
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Forearms: Deadlifts
Tris: Bench press, Military press
Calves: Power Cleans
I think having huge quads, pecs, lats and traps would mean I was pretty strong and also looking pretty good. The 5x5 I use also has 3 sets of dips, which give a little extra attention to the tris.
Everyone works out differently, but I think most people in the know nowdays say a full body 3x/week is the way to go for beginners. You could always try it out for a bit and see for yourself. The worst that would happen is going back to your old program if you found you didn't like it. |
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